drkohler said:
Translation: that, in a nutshell, is the whole problem. You are posting every message about houses attacked, tents destroyed, crying children, number of innocent dead people, etc. (None of these numbers have ever been corrobated. As morbid as it sounds, satellite imaging of graveyards/burial sites would tell you to a certain extent the true death toll inflicted by Israeli bombardments. No neutral number has ever been put to the test, only Hamas numbers (which obviously has no interest in telling them). Usually days after the event, we hear from Hamas that "x martyrs have died in a recent attack". So my conclusion is: 1. Israel is precisely attacking places of Hamas "martyrs". The number of dead "important people" is telling. Alongside it, people, including children, die. That is never an acceptable thing. Hoever, it is well known that Hamas operates out of schools, hospitals, mosques, civilian quarters. So these people that die in the attacks, they were either: a) willingly collaborating with Hamas b) used as civilian shields, likely against their wills. c) actually innocent folks who were unable to flee. It is obvious that Hamas never considered that Israel would dare do what they are currently doing: Bombing Hamas out of command leadership despite the world-wide outcry. Of course Israel will now be elevated to "Parias of the World" (a position they have solidly held in the Arab world, ever). There are first signs that Hamas is willing to talk about some kind of truce. It is a sign that they are absolutely bewildered by Israels reaction to the massacre that started all. |
How many people do you think have died? And how many is enough?
Israel is following Lavender AI, disproportionate air strikes across the board. When the AI suspects there is someone affiliated with Hamas in the area, fighter or civil worker, it gets considered for an air strike.
People are not being used as Human shields, they have nowhere to go. There are zero stories from aid workers returning from Gaza about Hamas using schools and hospitals or using human shields or hindering people to flee. The contrary, doctors keep telling the media there are no signs of Hamas operating in hospitals. It's only Israel and the IDF claiming this without ever providing any evidence. Even when the IDF gives a list of suspects they clain were in a school that was bombed it gets quickly debunked. In one such school bombing they listed names of people that had already died months earlier, some that weren't in Gaza anymore (fled to Egypt) and some that had nothing to do with Hamas.
Conclusion: IDF can not be trusted. They have been caught in lies almost daily.
Hamas already wanted a ceasefire in May, actually December they came with the framework for a ceasefire that Biden later adopted and presented as his ceasefire proposal. Of course Hamas wants the war to end, but they're not willing to give up the only leverage they have, the hostages, for a short pause without any guarantees. Remember the people freed from Israeli prisons in the November exchange have largely been rounded up again, along with many more.
2,000 pound bombs are also not precise, nor the smaller ones as has been shown over and over.
Do you disregard The Lancet as well?
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext
By June 19, 2024, 37 396 people had been killed in the Gaza Strip since the attack by Hamas and the Israeli invasion in October, 2023, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, as reported by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.1 The Ministry's figures have been contested by the Israeli authorities, although they have been accepted as accurate by Israeli intelligence services,2 the UN, and WHO. These data are supported by independent analyses, comparing changes in the number of deaths of UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) staff with those reported by the Ministry,3 which found claims of data fabrication implausible.4
All the aid agencies, the UN they all accept the death toll as accurate or more likely an under estimate. Only the bodies collected at hospitals end up in the death tally. Of which over 15,000 are children.
Is the Guardian posting disinformation as well?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/17/gaza-publishes-identities-of-34344-palestinians-killed-in-war-with-israel
Gaza’s health ministry has identified 34,344 Palestinians killed by Israeli attacks in the territory, publishing a list of names, ages, gender and ID numbers that cover more than 80% of Palestinians killed in the war so far.
The remaining 7,613 people included in its death toll, which is now above 41,000, are Palestinians whose bodies have been received by hospitals and morgues, but whose identities have not yet been confirmed.
The identified people include 169 babies born after the Hamas attacks of 7 October that began the war, and a man born in 1922 who had survived more than a century of war and upheaval.
The document runs to 649 pages, with the dead listed largely by age. Gaza’s population is youthful, and the register underlines the high toll of Israeli attacks on Palestinian children.
More than 100 pages are filled with the names of victims under 10 years old, and the first adult names do not appear until page 215.
Israeli officials question the death toll given by the authorities in Gaza, arguing that because Hamas controls the government there, Gaza’s health officials cannot provide reliable figures.
However, doctors and civil servants in the territory have a credible record from past wars. After several conflicts between 2009 and 2021, United Nations investigators drew up their own lists of the dead and found they closely matched ones from Gaza.
“Unfortunately, we have the sad experience of coordinating with the ministry of health on casualty figures every few years,” Farhan Haq, a spokesperson for the UN secretary general, has said. “Their figures have proven to be generally accurate.”
Yes, all these numbers are corroborated. Bodies get identified, names registered. The initial numbers are not always accurate as body parts literally have to be matched together to prevent double counting. But also many can't be recovered and are buried under rubble or eaten by wild dogs in the streets.
No, it's the IDF that's intentionally vague and throwing up numbers that can't be trusted
Israel Gaza: Checking Israel's claim to have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68387864
Acled says this about Israel's numbers
https://acleddata.com/2024/10/06/after-a-year-of-war-hamas-is-militarily-weakened-but-far-from-eliminated/
While Israel’s operations in the Gaza Strip have significantly reduced Hamas’ military manpower,2 the exact number of fighters it has lost remains uncertain. Israel claims to have killed around 17,000 gunmen,3 dismantling most of Hamas’ 24 battalions,4 along with killing dozens of commanders and key leaders.5 However, more detailed IDF reports on the killing of militants containing specifics on timeframes, locations, or operations, recorded by ACLED, account for approximately 8,500 fatalities.6 This figure also includes militants from other armed groups and possibly other non-combatant Hamas members.
Sorry but your conclusion is based on propaganda, not on facts corroborated with independent international organizations across the board.
