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SvennoJ on 19 October 2024
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Spindel said:
Chrkeller said:

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying but QoL have gotten better with time.  Zelda, dying and starting with 3 hearts is annoying.  Zelda 2, dying in a dungeon and starting back at start is annoying.

The things above are not good design.  Battletoads, on the NES, is flatly punishing, especially two player.  

Games are more balanced now. 

Edit

Actraiser 2, MDK2, etc.  Good luck playing those games.  Christ the difficulty is brutal to the point of no fun.

No map in the original Metroid wasn't good design.  


Starting with 3 hearts in Zelda is a perfect way to annoy the player. It’s a consequence of the player messing up and maybe the player learns to be more careful in the future. Same with Adventures of Link, restarting in the entrance is a consequence of messing up. Consequences for poor actions are good design and something lacking in most of the games from the last 20 years. 

I haven’t played Battletoads in ages but as I remember it it wasn’t to punishing up until the motorcycle stage. And I’ll admit I’ve never made it past the motorcycle stage. But that was more an issue of never owning the game myself. 

And again I’m going to disagree with you on Metroid. The no in game mini map is a feature (specially in hindsight) that I hold to a high esteem. You want to know how both me and most of my friends played it the first time? With a pen and a stack of paper next to the TV and we drew our own map. That added to the experience and sense of wonder and discovery. I’m currently on a play through of it again on Nintendo Online, but nowadays I don’t need pen and paper I still remember where to go. 

I’ll add another game that you probably hate that I love and that is Simon’s Quest. The NPCs giving misleading information is a stroke of genius that I would dare developers do today in the age of arrows pointing at the objective and where to go.

But let us say this, I think you and me will not agree to much in this discussion. 

Lol I thought starting with 3 hearts was considered too easy. You start with one heart in Max Mustard and have to find them, max 3 (not silly 40+ like modern Zelda) And when you fall they're all gone again.

And yes no in game map works. See Dark Souls. I still have the entire place mapped in my mind. Witcher 3, no clue where what was.

Fez was also a gem, pen and paper next to my laptop, figure out the language etc.

And Riven is still a masterpiece and I'm glad I got to enjoy it at the right time, without spoilers nor solutions available. I did eventually have to look up the answer to one puzzle using a faq. Yet figuring out the numerical system etc, that was the reward.


Modern games just seem to be made for secondary screen time. Do / watch something else while playing / grinding / do the same stuff over and over. Hence I'm sticking to VR nowadays. Those game are more designed to have your full attention. AAA games are just "Simon says". Some don't even give you 30 seconds to look at a 'puzzle' before throwing the answer at you.



And the argument that older controls suck holds little weight. It was the other way around when I was used to those "sucky" controls. Analog control was a learning curve. I played Duke Nukem 3D, Doom with keyboard only. First I couldn't get along with Quake, dismissed it cause the mouse control made me feel sick.

Same when transitioning from digital to analog input with racing games. I had perfected the tap tap tap input method for cornering. Basically morse code for turning haha. It took a while to get used to analog steering.

And the transition from tank controls to camera oriented controls still screws me up today. When the character is on the ceiling in a weird camera angle. I know perfectly fine where to go from the character's orientation, yet can't figure out which way to press from the camera angle. Same with ladders, up is suddenly down. Just let me steer the character instead of the view. It's a problem in VR too where forward is the direction you're looking. (or the way you're pointing your hand, but that only makes it worse) No, I don't turn automatically when I look to my right. I can run/walk in a straight line while looking around me. Modern controls aren't all that great.

Nah someone who comes from the 90s to play today's games would be just as lost as the other way around. Controls aren't easier/better, it's just what you're used to. Actually controls were a lot less complicated back then.