Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

[zorg1000]

Chrkeller said:

zorg1000 said:

I think you need to go back and reread our conversation from the start, here are the direct quotes in the back and forth about the left being extreme.

You: I mean each side trying to out extreme each other is beyond broken.

Me: It’s a false equivalence to pretend the current left & right are equally extreme.

You: People are entitled to think debt forgiveness, etc are extreme.

And honestly I think the overall argument is weak.  Being less extreme doesn't make one not extreme.  

Both parties are extreme and neither are focused on the middle class, which is the point.

Me: Debt forgiveness is not anywhere close to banning abortion or trying to overturn an election/incite an insurrection. If student debt forgiveness is your shining example of left wing extremism then you’re kind of proving my point.

My argument isn’t that one is less extreme, it’s that one has become extreme while the other has shifted from left of center to center left.

You: Extreme is going to viewed based on personal standards, which varies from person to person

Also, since you can't read very well, I didn't say I thought the left was as extreme.

Me: Anybody who tries to claim that forgiving student debt is anywhere in the realm of stripping women of rights or trying to overthrow democracy can’t be taken seriously.

you: And I never said debt forgiveness was more extreme than abortion ban.  That is just a lie on your part.

You absolutely did claim/imply that they are equally extreme in your first statement, I also never said you claimed debt forgiveness was as extreme as abortion, I said if that’s your best example then you are proving my point & that people who believe that can’t be taken seriously.

Also, it’s been a few posts now of you ignoring the pretty sizable list of things democrats passed/tried to pass that the middle class benefit from.

Extreme is an opinion, thus I can't prove which is more extreme, that is the point that took you too long to understand.  I used debt forgiveness as an example because the courts have ruled against the administration and Biden found a work around.  Personally I find the executive branch working around the court of law rather extreme.

Is that as extreme as abortion, I don't think so.  But I also have daughters, which is going to influence my opinion.  But others may find it more extreme than abortion.

Extreme is relative and both sides are extreme to large sectors of the populous.

Yeah, I ignored the list, for two reasons.  I couldn't get past you claiming opinion as fact and I certainly wasn't going to argue with someone who didn't know the difference.  The second reason is because we already discussed that messaging is the problem.  Liberals love talking about niche demographics...  

Look at it this way....  your claim is MAGA is extreme and liberals aren't....  yet Biden is losing in the polls....  you keep viewing things from your perspective, instead of the average American.  Clearly the average American sees things differently than you do.  Just saying.  

Extreme does have a definition

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/extreme

“Farthest from the center or middle”, “exceeding the bounds of moderation”

By that definition you can figure out what is more extreme by level of support which lines up with your statement about the average American’s views and it’s not that hard to find polling on these topics.

Student Debt Forgiveness

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/26/canceling-student-loan-debt-a-key-issue-ahead-of-election-survey.html

March 2024-50% support partial or complete debt forgiveness

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/samuels-student-debt-forgiveness-0303/

Feb 2023-62% say at least some debt should be forgiven

another Feb 2023 poll-53% somewhat or strongly support Biden’s student debt plan

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/shows/meetthepress/blog/rcna92006

June 2023-47% supported Biden’s student debt plan

Abortion

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/#:~:text=Among%20moderate%20and%20liberal%20Republicans,and%20moderate%20Democrats%20(76%25).

April 2024-63% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-march-2024-abortion-in-the-2024-election-and-beyond/

March 2024-67% support a law guaranteeing a federal right to abortion

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/abortion-poll-quiz-2024/

Feb 2024-71% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/05/01/politics/cnn-poll-abortion-laws

May 2024-65% oppose the Dobbs ruling

Insurrection

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/jan-6-opinion-poll-republican-disapproval-wanes-2024-01-06/

Jan 2024-78% disapprove of J6 rioters, 70% believe US democracy is threatened

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/1/10/voters-are-concerned-about-a-repeat-of-the-january-6-insurrection-and-other-threats-to-democracy

Jan 2024-74% disapprove of inciting violence and threatening democracy

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/polls-show-americans-are-divided-on-the-significance-of-january-6/

Dec 2022-64% Believe Trump is somewhat or very responsible for J6

~1/2 of people support student debt relief, it’s a divisive topic but not extreme

~2/3 of people support Roe & believe abortion should be protected at the federal level, abortion bans are extreme.

~3/4 of people disapprove of J6 rioters, believe it was a threat to democracy and ~2/3 of people believe Trump is at least partially responsible.

As for ignoring the list yet again, your original statement was, “both parties are extreme and neither are focused on the middle class”, you said absolutely nothing about messaging and that list does in fact prove that Democrats are focused on the middle class. Being poor messengers or the average American not paying attention has nothing to do with your statement.

Joe Biden doing poorly in polling doesn’t mean people think Democrats are extreme. The biggest issues people have with Biden are his age & inflation, Senators in swing states outperforming him in polling shows it’s not a Democrat issue but a Biden issue.