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firebush03 said:
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(oh give me a break. Just because I’m being playful in my remarks? What are you even talking about? What does it even mean I’m treating it like a game? I find debate to be fun, if that’s what you’re getting at. But I don’t see what’s wrong with that?)
When the situation is as serious as Ukraine, when you witness atrocities in Ukraine almost every week, and I see people rushing in with Russian propaganda to put the blame away from Russia and onto someone else, then they make light of the situation then yes, I find that annoying and quite frankly disgusting.
You find debating fun but you've barely debated with anyone in this thread.
(So yall will provide your rebuttals and I kinda just have to take the “L” because I don’t have time to get into it. That’s the problem rn. It’s not like I’m unable to provide a sufficient response, I just don’t have the motivation to do such when I have other more important things to be focused on.)
Then you shouldn't have posted in here in the first place, it's not our fault that you're shit at planning, preparing, it's not our fault that you decided to come in with some generalised bait of the situation and then refused to elaborate, it's not our fault that you're refusing to read rebuttals, it's not our fault that it takes you weeks to make a response to the most basic of questions.
He absolutely does not know his stuff. If he did, he wouldn’t have to drop the wall of China in all his responses.
Not going to say I know everything but writing long pieces of text have nothing to do with that and a University PHD of all people should know that.
When your teacher asked you to make an essay of (x-amount of words) was your response; "Well, I would but that would just prove that I don't know my stuff so I'm just going to give you 100 words instead" and how can you claim that I do not know my stuff when you have admitted to not even reading my stuff.
If he did, he wouldn’t constantly resort to insults in almost every single one of his sentences.
Don't be a hypocrite, you started your posting in here by accusing everyone in the thread of not debating in good faith, then upon being challenged you immediately insulted Zorg, did you even apologise for that? So if you aren't going to show others respect then don't expect respect in return, especially when you straight up ignore people putting actual effort into replying to your posts.
Also, yes, most of my commentary does read in a highly speculative manner (as does Ryuu’s, though he has the luxury to call back upon his sources)
Ryuu has sources, I don't, that's why Ryuu is bad!
It’s because I’ve already done the research and I’m not in the mood to dig it all back up
Except yesterday you was whining that you would have to research things to respond?
When asked whether there was further nuance to Putin than “He’s the bad guy!”, he simply told me that it actually is that simple: This is entirely irrational.
Uh, yes, because throughout history it has in fact been that simple when it comes to violent dictators.
Would you be sitting on the side-lines and arguing that actually, it was Poland's fault that Hitler invaded them? We must look into the nuance as to why Hitler wanted to control half the world and it wasn't as simple as "he's just a sick fuck" because apparently, humans can't simply just be sick fucks sometimes, despite us being an incredibly violent species throughout history.
Did you ignore the Russian State Media advocating to wipe out Ukrainians? Did you miss Putin pulling out the map which "shows" that Ukraine as a country doesn't exist to justify his invasion? Did you miss Russian atrocities in Syria committed by Putin, atrocities in Chechnya committed by Putin, the Georgia invasion, the Crimea invasion.
And listen to me when I say that I’m not one to completely dismiss the prospect that Putin may have some imperial desires.
You won't dismiss it but it's irrational for someone else to take the stance.
Sure, their economy has stood shockingly well in face of mass U.S. sanctioning
Their economy is standing up because it's in war mode.
Their military remains powerful (indeed, this is an embarrassing display by the US how they miscalculated so terribly).
Debateable, an embarrassing display by the US? The US who hasn't sent a single American soldier into Ukraine? The US who is ranked #16th for support to Ukraine by GDP? The US spending a fraction of their money and military power? While Russia has lost hundreds of thousands of troops, tens of thousands of equipment, all for 16% of Ukraine (and some of that 16% is Crimea/Donbas which they stole in 2014).
Holy shit dude this is why I have trouble talking to you, it's just choke full of pro-Russian nonsense.
Russia is a global superpower throwing almost everything it has against a country which doesn't even have a navy and barely an air-force, a numerical disadvantage in troops and severe lack of equipment at the start of the war and they've still lost thousands of equipment and hundreds of thousands of troops, they even lost a fucking submarine to a country with no navy, they had to pull back their Black Sea Fleet due to Ukraine, a country with no navy, threatening their fleet, so much so that Ukraine is now able to freely resume grain exports through the Black Sea.
Embarrassing display by the US? The US is putting a fraction of their total power into this war and some in western Europe (France, Italy, Spain) are barely pulling their weight at all. The USA puts fucking restrictions on Ukraine that they can't fire US weapons onto Russian territory and you think America wants Russia destroyed?
Explain to me genius why America puts so many restrictions on Ukraine? Explain to me why America took months to decide to send MBTS, Long-Range Missiles? Explain to me why America is rank #16 for GDP % support? Explain to me why America currently hasn't pledged a single F-16 to Ukraine despite having hundreds? Explain to me why America doesn't want Ukraine striking Russian territory?
However, the U.S. has truly gotten their wish of mass NATO support across the countries along the Russian border.
Russia* Achieved that by threatening their neighbours. The Baltics, Poland, Czech Republic, etc. Have always hated and disliked Russia.
This is the exact reason why I don’t have interest in getting into all of this, because it’s so nuanced, and there are so many perfectly valid perspectives to have.
I swear to God...You are the biggest hypocrite on this forum, Lol.
"There's so many perfectly valid perspectives to have!"
- Also Firebush: You're irrational for thinking this.
“I have it figured it” is a waste of my time to even deal with that.
Then go away because all you look like is a troll.
(I’m sure they did. But again, that doesn’t explain why Putin launched the invasion in the first place. There is further nuance. Putin’s plans may have been to neutralize the threat in a swift manner, but things didn’t go accordingly.)
You literally just explained why Putin launched the invasion in the first place in the same comment, Lmao.
"Putin's plans may have been to neutralize the threat in a swift manner, but things didn't go accordingly"
You're so close to getting it!
He expected a swift victory and a weak western response because the West didn't respond when he stole Crimea, Donbas, Chechnya, Areas of Georgia, etc. Who can be surprised at that? If a bully keeps punching someone and nobody stops him, guess what, he's going to keep punching.
The West themselves expected Ukraine to fall in a week!
From 2022: Exclusive: U.S. Expects Kyiv to Fall in Days as Ukraine Source Warns of Encirclement
It is easy to see how a PhD would view Ryuu as going a little bit overboard.
Pretty sure a PHD wouldn't say "I ain't reading this, too long bro" either.
I'm still waiting for you to admit that you were wrong that NATO "promised" to not expand, that you were wrong about America forcing Zelenskyy to drop his peace deal, I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge your nuke argument makes zero sense when looking at the actual facts (nukes have a range of 5000km+ and Russia has more nukes bordering NATO countries than NATO countries have bordering Russia). I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that both sides AREN'T the same. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that Russia gave Ukraine security guarantees in exchange for surrendering their nukes and Russia broke that agreement. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that Germany already rejected NATO membership. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that Ukraine, Latvia, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, etc. Are all independent countries and hate Russia for reasonable reasons outside of "America told us to" I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that NATO membership requires a YES vote by every member. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that NATO would have never accepted Ukraine in as long as they were in active conflict with Russia which they were since 2014 via Crimea and Donbas. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that America has straight up said Ukraine can't join NATO as long as they are in war. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge that NATO is a defensive organisation and Article 5 has only ever been invoked by America in response to 9/11. That Russia has said that Ukraine doesn't exist as a country and is a part of Russia. That Putin used a map to show that Ukraine doesn't exist as a country. That Russian State Media regularly says Ukrainians need to be exterminated. That NATO has never attacked Russia. That Russia pulled troops away from the Finnish border after Finland joined NATO. That Russia has nuclear capable missiles inside of Kaliningrad, a country which borders Poland. That no country in the Nordics, Baltics, Eastern Europe have nukes or share American nukes. That America places restrictions on what Ukraine can do against Russia to avoid upsetting Russia too much.
You'll just give me some bullshit "societal" speech and continue vaguely teasing a response.
