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Ryuu96 on 17 May 2024
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firebush03 said:
the-pi-guy said:

Where is the evidence that Zelenskyy wants peace talks and that the US is preventing that?

Republicans in particular have been pushing against any aid. Many of them literally consider Russia to be allies.  

How stalled U.S. aid for Ukraine exemplifies GOP’s softening stance on Russia

Republicans Block Aid To Ukraine

Zelenskyy himself came to the US to lobby Congress multiple times to beg for aid. 

2022

September 2023

December 2023

America being a superpower isn't proof in and of itself of anything. Plenty of things still happen without the US and even against what the US asks for.  

You're arguing that countries are having their hand forced by America with no evidence. 

Also, I will immediately confess that yes, Zelenski since April 2022 has not been interested in peace talks. I got that detail wrong. However, to give just a taste of what I’ve got, the reason behind Zelenski’s shift in tone from being pro-peace to pro-war relates to Boris Johnson’s unplanned visit to convince Zelenski that the U.S. and U.K. will supply Ukraine all the resource they’ll need to fight off Russia. Very reputable sources from across Europe confirm that Zelenski was at the verge of reach a peace agreement, but talks immediately ceased following Boris’ affirmation. Which is entirely reasonable, especially noting all the pressure Zelenski was dealing with from nationalistic forces — who had by that point been enlisted and therefore armed — who posed a threat of coup.

Also, I will immediately confess that yes, Zelenski since April 2022 has not been interested in peace talks. I got that detail wrong.

You get a lot wrong, would help if you researched stuff before posting.

The reason behind Zelenski’s shift in tone from being pro-peace to pro-war relates to Boris Johnson’s unplanned visit to convince Zelenski

Literally debunked on this very page.

Who are these "reputable sources" more reputable than Dmytro Kuleba, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine.

U.S. and U.K. will supply Ukraine all the resource they’ll need to fight off Russia

Which is a good thing, since it was that or we let Ukraine get taken over by Russia.

This was Ukraine during the early stages of the war, Russia was attempting to take everything up to Kyiv and Odessa, the ONLY reason they pulled back was because they got shredded, firstly in an attempt to take Odesa they suffered significant losses trying to get by Mykolaiv and their assault on Kyiv was an utter shitshow and Ukraine defence proved to be more formidable.

You'd also know that Russia wants to take Odesa to cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea and also taking Odesa links Russia to Transnistria where Russian troops are currently stationed.

 

Wonder why they'd want to do that, Lol. Anyone who has witnessed Ukraine vs Russia since 2014, Russia's influence in Donbas and stealing of Crimea knows why Russia would like to link up to Transnistria, Moldova will be next, the exact same playbook as Ukraine and Georgia, cause a little conflict in a breakaway region and then take more and more.

Which is entirely reasonable, especially noting all the pressure Zelenski was dealing with from nationalistic forces — who had by that point been enlisted and therefore armed — who posed a threat of coup.

Nationalist = Being angry that another country has invaded your country, raped and killed your people, stolen your land, destroyed your home? Of course Ukraine is nationalistic when they have a neighbour constantly attacking them, threatening them, saying they don't exist, calling them animals, any country in the world would be just as nationalistic considering the circumstances.

Ukrainian Nationalism is very much a direct result of Russian Imperialism.

So yes, if Zelenskyy did surrender Ukraine, he very may well have been tossed out of government since Ukraine has done it before against their leader who was seen as pro-Russian (Euromaiden) but that's not why Zelenskyy has done it, Zelenskyy is just as much of a proud Ukrainian as the rest of them, he knows the Russian peace talks would only end up delaying the inevitable, Russia would take more at a later date.

The terms of Russia's "peace" agreement are utter horseshit.

If you've followed the war, which you clearly haven't, you'd know that Zelenskyy has already laid out his peace terms.

  1. Safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant
  2. Protecting food distribution
  3. Restoration of Ukraine's energy infrastructure
  4. Release of prisoners and return of Ukrainian children deported to Russia
  5. Restoration of Ukrainian borders prior to the 2014 annexation of Crimea
  6. Full withdrawal of Russian military forces from Ukraine
  7. Prosecution of war crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
  8. Remediation of ecological damage caused by the Destruction of the Kakhovka Dam
  9. Guarantees against future aggression
  10. A multilateral peace conference

Ukraine's Peace Formula - Wikipedia

If Russia wants peace, all they need to do is leave Ukraine, it's that simple.

But apparently Ukraine, the defender, must be the one to make all the compromises against the aggressor, makes sense.

Also, Bucha Massacre was one of the things that seriously hurt peace talks, as Russia committed a disgusting atrocity during so called "peace" talks.

As for NATO

Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, opens new tab, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership.

Exclusive: As War Began, Putin Rejected a Ukraine Peace Deal Recommended By Aide | Reuters

Peskov Saying There Can Be No Peace Plan Unless Ukraine Surrenders Claim to Crimea, Donetsk Oblast, Luhansk Oblast, Kherson Oblast, Zaporizhzhia Oblast

“There can be no peace plan for Ukraine that does not take into account today’s realities regarding Russian territory, with the entry of four regions into Russia,” Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday. “Plans that do not take these realities into account cannot be peaceful.”

Voanews.com

Funny that considering they don't even control the capital of Kherson or Zaporizhzhia but that's beside the point.

Putin Calls Again For Overthrow of Ukrainian Government – Baltimore Council on Foreign Affairs

You want to see what Russia's true goals are? How about you take it from the horses mouth.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 May 2024