firebush03 said:
Except I'm not parroting nobodies lines except what I feel is right. That Russia has no excuse to invade another country on the premise that said country may or may not have in the future joined a defensive organisation, especially when Russia themselves have contradicted that narrative multiple times and used dozens of other excuses for their invasion. [You are correct in stating that Russia has no excuse in invading another country. We agree on this. So let’s focus on where we disagree: Do you believe that we should consider the Ukrainian-Russian Conflict from a perspective which examines what led to Russia committing such an inexcusable deed? In my opinion, I’d argue so. It’s good to understand the underlying root cause of an issue, otherwise we won’t be able to most sufficiently address it, as well history will inevitably repeat itself. I don’t think you want another war to emerge which could’ve potentially been avoided had one country taken different steps to address the issue. Do you disagree with these statements? I’m laying some groundwork here, hear with me. I’ll get to the facts later on.] But here's you straight up parroting the victim blaming bullshit [This is a sign that you have underlying motives for not wanting to consider alternative perspectives, for otherwise you’ll view yourself as being a victim blamer. Drop this perspective, and our conversation will truly be productive. Do you believe yourself to be rational in your thoughts? If so, there’s no need to come up with labels for alternative beliefs. The evidence you have behind your believes should be sufficient in defending you claims.] that it's Ukraine's fault [I retract all my prior statements for they were not thoroughly fact-checked, hence might be incorrect. We can think of this as a “reset” to our discussion.] for being invaded because it wanted to join NATO. I'm not an idiot who needs people to feed me lines, I can formulate my own thoughts and opinions. You'd even find me criticising US's approach to this war but once again you've ignored all that. [I haven’t ignored it. I specifically told you in the past that I’m not going to waste my time reading your giant articles of information. You refused to meet me where I was at, and so I chose not to read them. So I don’t even know your stances.] Many times throughout history conflicts have been simply one bad guy wanting to achieve bad things, Hitler for example. [Okay, but does this mean we should approach all conflict from this black-and-white lens? Because at the end of the day, it is simply a lens of perspective. You can choose to view it from the lens of “Putin = Bad!”, or you could consider the more nuanced perspective of examining the interests of both sides.] "Biden and Putin always talk about wanting to engage in peace talks" - Once again you're cutting out Ukraine from the conversation. [Zelenski wants peace talks. The U.S. shuts them down. I don’t include Ukraine for this reason. I will provide evidence behind this assertion later today.] This is Ukraine vs Russia, not America vs Russia and there's about a dozen countries in Europe taking a tougher stance than America on Russia. [Lots of countries in Europe are having their hand forced into the conflict, though I will not deny there are many — especially those along Russia’s border — who are now strong supporters of Ukraine in this conflict. However, America does objective have the most power, for they are the global superpower.] |
|
Where is the evidence that Zelenskyy wants peace talks and that the US is preventing that?
Republicans in particular have been pushing against any aid. Many of them literally consider Russia to be allies.
How stalled U.S. aid for Ukraine exemplifies GOP’s softening stance on Russia
Republicans Block Aid To Ukraine
Zelenskyy himself came to the US to lobby Congress multiple times to beg for aid.
2022
September 2023
December 2023
America being a superpower isn't proof in and of itself of anything. Plenty of things still happen without the US and even against what the US asks for.
You're arguing that countries are having their hand forced by America with no evidence.
