Ukraine's allies must change tack - former Nato commander
While we were hearing from Grant Shapps, General Sir Richard Shirreff, former Nato Deputy Supreme Commander for Europe, has been speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
He says a "fundamental shift" is needed in the West's strategy for supporting Ukraine because the country's allies "haven't sufficiently stepped up".
Until the arrival of the recent US package, Ukraine has been "on the back foot", he says. But even if US aid had arrived faster, Shirreff argues that the strategy of giving Ukraine "only enough to defend itself" isn't going to work.
Western allies need to give Kyiv "the capabilities to defeat Russia in Ukraine," he says. "The best form of defence is attack."
The world was caught napping, UK defence secretary says
We're hearing again from UK Defence Secretary Grant Shapps, who tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he spoke to his Ukrainian counterpart Rustem Umerov yesterday to discuss Kharkiv, which is currently under siege from Russian forces.
Shapps says things are "very delicate" and that the world was "caught napping".
He says that on his last visit to Ukraine, he stood in Kyiv and said "this is a wake up call" because of delays in getting Ukraine the aid it needed.
He adds that he's received thanks from President Zelensky and many other people in Ukraine, who say Ukraine "probably wouldn't be in this war today" without the UK's "consistent" support.
'It's a question of political will' - Shapps on defence for Ukraine
Grant Shapps is next asked about comments earlier from the former Nato Deputy Supreme Commander for Europe who discussed the need for a "fundamental shift" within the West to not only give Ukraine enough to defend but to defeat.
The UK defence secretary says he agrees, adding that if everyone stepped up it would be a fraction of defence spending overall.
He thinks it is a "question of political will", saying it would be a lot cheaper, and the right thing to do, to defend and therefore deter Putin here and now rather than to allow him to win.
'It is essential that Putin does not win the war,' says Shapps
The UK defence secretary is asked by the BBC Radio 4's Today programme what the overall aim is in Ukraine and if it includes the defeat of Russia and the deposing of President Putin.
Grant Shapps replies: "It is essential that Putin does not win that war. The question now is what does that mean? I don't think an aggressor should be rewarded and in the end it is up to Ukraine to decide if they are prepared to have a settlement."
"My simple message to the world and in particular to the US... is it is a lot cheaper to defend and therefore to deter Putin here and now than it is to allow him to win and other autocrats elsewhere getting the idea that the rest of the world is a soft touch and you can walk in and take over countries."
Shapps then raises the hypothetical question about what would happen if the UK was invaded and Kent occupied.
"Would we go, oh it is time to settle. I don't think that would ever be the case and I think it is right that we provide both the military assistance and the moral clarity that it is always unacceptable for an autocrat to walk into a neighbouring democratic country and take a chunk of it for themselves."
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