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Jaicee said:
SvennoJ said:

Btw thanks for the correction and counter points. I do admit I also get caught up in and deeply distressed by the images coming out of Gaza, which is leading to my feelings against Zionism which really are against the politicized version of Neo-Zionism which has led to ethnic cleansing.

I apologize for coming over as insensitive to the Jewish experience.

All I've wished for for the past 40 years is for people to find a way to live together. It was a bad day when Israel decided to build the separation wall. Walls are never a solution, they only lead to further entrenchment on both sides, leading to misunderstanding today.

And I agree, asking Jewish students whether they are Zionists before letting them pass, is simply wrong. Not only is the question wrong, it's no way to start a discussion to find out what exactly each 'party' asks of each other. And I'm wrong for conflating the Neo-Zionist fascist ideology with Zionism in general.

Perhaps the better slogan for demonstrations would be "From the river to the sea, everyone shall be free".

It's all good. Like I said, I'm not Jewish myself; it's just something I notice. I know you mean well and I commend your intestinal fortitude in being willing to deep dive into the gruesome details of war day in and day out to provide the community here with the most up-to-date information. As I've shared before, my dad never really recovered mentally from the Vietnam War. The damage is much more than what happens to you physically, on the surface level, and it can last for the rest of your life. I've been living with PTSD of my own for most of my life and have to admit that though I try to face the things that trigger reactions, I still have limits.

One thing I know for sure is that the populations of Israel and Palestine writ large are currently living in a traumatized state. They're acting like it. What they're doing is...anything to feel safe. The truth though is that many if not most of these people will never feel safe again; the people of Gaza especially. A growing chorus of people just want it to end though and those are the people, honestly, who give me hope.

I know about the damage. My grandmother was Indonesian and got taken by the Japanese in the WW2. She lost her first child from starvation in a Japanese concentration camp. After the war she fled to The Netherlands with my grandfather. (Who was Dutch and basically part of the occupation of Indonesia by the Netherlands) My other grandfather got taken by the Germans and spend WW2 in a German labor camp.

Both never spoke of the experience, this is all the information I got of what happened to them. My grandmother never recovered. She had 4 more kids but the trauma led to strife within the family leading my mother and her sister declaring each other dead (not talking). My grandfather turned into quite a racist, lot of bottled up hatred which often subtly and not so subtly was directed at my mother (who was born in Indonesia before they moved)

My mother ended up working with war refugees, one of whom tried to commit suicide by train. I unknowingly cycled right past him while police were trying to back up the train he was stuck under. (Lost his legs)

Yes the trauma will last generations.

Israel has been playing on fear as well. Hence the rise of the ultra right government. While there is some truth in that some people in surrounding countries want Israel gone (still refugees from 1948 living in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) Israel exaggerates the danger they're in, as well as dehumanizes their 'enemies' to keep support.

One thing has become more clear during this war. There are definitely militant groups attacking Israel, yet no other country has formally declared or joined the war. Iran has been very reluctant and only did one major attack when they could not ignore the bombing of their consulate in Damascus killing 16 people people including 8 officers. Still they gave Israel and its allies 2 weeks to prepare and turned it into a big show with slow moving drones, gave notice beforehand and managed to do material damage only on the intended military target.
Then wen Israel retaliated again anyway, Iran downplayed the attack, not interested in further escalation.

Most people in the ME are tired of war, they want lasting peace. Israel seems to be the outlier, keeps stoking the fires with threats, assassinations and ongoing occupation and treatment of Palestinians.

It will take a long time to heal and random attacks with still happen for quite some time. Yet there are examples of how to get out of this mess, see the end of the IRA. Not by force, by talking, negotiating, calming tensions and eventually they laid down there arms. Yet that can only happen when you stop treating the other side like animals.

When you put your safety in the hand of extremists, you're never going to be safe. When will people ever learn this.