Ryuu96 said:
Nah, it wouldn't. That Botox lunatic who is scared to sit near people on a table definitely does not want to die in a nuclear hellfire, this constant and unfounded fear that if we step up to Russia, it will lead to a nuclear warfare, is unfounded and is exactly what Russia wants us to think, there are British special forces in Ukraine right now as confirmed by Germany and despite Russia threatening UK about 500 times, we're still alive. Every. Single. Threat. That Russia has made to the West, every single "redline" that we've crossed...Russia did fuck all...We broke them all, I'll just list some of the "redlines" for you, which Russia said would result in "very bad things" happening to us. Russia could barely defend Moscow from a militia group (Wagner) and Putin fled to fucking St Petersburg when it happened, this ain't a man who wants to die.
Russia has made literally dozens of threats of nuclear war against us...We're still here. The only way nuclear war happens if is the West starts marching on Moscow, not if we help Ukraine.
You don't understand what is actually going on in Ukraine. Russia has multiple times said their goals haven't changed, they want to conquer Ukraine, at the very minimum they want everything up to Odessa and Kyiv which is half the country and the capital, how exactly do you assume that Russia doesn't have the capacity to conquer all of Ukraine? Russia owns the biggest land on Earth and half of it is a shithole due to neglect, they do not care how they take Ukraine, as long as they take it, which means completely destroying the destroy, if you've seen the images of Ukrainian cities then you wouldn't naively say Russia "doesn't have the capacity" to conquer all of Ukraine. Russia's imperialistic goals are the restoration of their "Empire" and that includes all of Ukraine and Belarus and any country which refuses such as Ukraine, is taken by force so yes, they very much do have interest in conquering all of Ukraine, as they've repeated both publicly and privately multiple times, you clearly have barely followed this conflict at all or Russia's own words.
Wrong and Russian propaganda to justify the invasion. There was no such agreement in writing that NATO would not expand its borders. De-Bunking Russian Disinformation on NATO You know what was writing in writing though? The Budapest Memorandum, in which the UK, USA and Russia agreed with each other to "Respect the signatory's (Ukraine) independence and sovereignty" and "Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries" essentially Security Assurances for Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine to surrender its nuclear weapons. Who broke that agreement? Oh right, Russia.
You do realise how NATO works, right? You do know that every single country gets a vote? And that if one country votes against another joining that the country can't join at all? You do know that Ukraine already tried to join NATO once before back in 2008 and that France and Germany voted against it? Then after that America gave up on. You do know that Ukraine today wants to join NATO and there is huge support for it amongst the public? You are aware of the Ukraine riots in 2014, the Euromaiden, in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union which resulted in a President heavily seen by Ukrainians as being a Russian puppet being kicked out of office by the people? Nobody forces a country to join NATO, it is purely a defensive organisation and not once in NATO's history has it been used in anything other than that defensive capacity, the only time Article 5 has EVER been enforced was by America in response to the 9/11 attacks. There's a reason why the majority of countries near Russia are in NATO and it isn't because as you would try to have people believe, that they'd dumb fucks who can't think for themselves and are just being controlled by big bad America, it's because Russia constantly threatens and invades its neighbours. Ukraine was nowhere near to joining NATO...Why? Because NATO would have never allowed a country into it which is in active conflict with another and Ukraine was in active conflict, with Russia, the only way Ukraine could have joined NATO is if they officially gave up claim over Crimea and Donbas...Russia knows full well that Ukraine wasn't anywhere close to joining NATO, they are the ones who designed it so that would be the case, by starting a small conflict they prevent Ukraine from joining NATO at all because NATO does not want a war with Russia. The idea that Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO makes absolutely zero sense when you put a bit of thought into it and also is Russian propaganda to justify the slaughter of thousands when Russia themselves have said they want Ukraine because they see it as "theirs" and that Ukraine as a country doesn't exist, nor do Ukrainians as an ethnic people. Congratulations on expanding NATO borders though with Finland joining...Wonder why Russia didn't invade Finland to stop them joining NATO...Wonder why Russia pulled troops away from the Finnish border...Oh right, because it was never about NATO and it's just some bullshit propaganda to rile up the nationalism in their own people "RUSSIA VS THE WORLD!!!" and for naïve fools in the West to spread to convince less support of Ukraine. Also: US Opposes Offering Ukraine a Road Map to NATO Membership Lol.
...Lol. You really think America needs Ukraine to surveillance Russia? C'mon... Europe tried for dozens of years to coddle Russia and work with them, we looked the other way as Russia committed multiples violations in exchange for peace and money, in the blind faith that Russia would change and start working with us one day, despite the atrocities they committed in Afghanistan, Syria, Chechnya, their illegal invasion of Crimea, their Russian backed proxies causing wars in violence in Donbas and Transnistria, their invasion of Georgia, their assassinations on foreign soil (UK, for example) using deadly nerve agents. Imagine if Russian proxy forces attacked American troops...Oh right, they actually did that, Wagner in Syria...Good thing they got wiped out.
"America bad so Russia and China good" Got it, Lol. Great logic. Here's how Russia treats countries near it. You know just because America has done some horrific things in its history doesn't mean you have to simp for modern day Hitler?
Lol. Sure. People said Russia would never invade Ukraine as well, Russia has no interest in invading or conquering Ukraine. They were wrong. When a country makes constant threats...Maybe we should take those threats seriously.
Tell that to Russia (Putin)...Or Hitler...Or every fascist imperialist ruler in history who has colonized a nation which had no interest in being colonized... JFC You are naïve.
News flash, it takes a long time for a country to build the military strength to invade another and China has been rapidly increasing its military strength which is worrying, not just to Taiwan but multiple of China's neighbours, there's a reason why China like Russia is also disliked by many of its neighbours but people like you treat them like they're just stupid pawns on America's board who don't understand why they dislike China/Russia other than America told them to, the peak of American arrogance to think that your country dictates how every country thinks or feels. |
I'm sorry...please be a little more concise. I will read length responses, but I'm not looking to compile a college essay trying to address everything you said. From what I read, however, it seems as though you're arguments rely either on (i) sensationalist propaganda pieces (with those photos in particular...I can just as easily pull up a photo of children in Gaza being decapitated and say "Oh look how America treats the third-world". Pull up data and *examine the history of events from both perspectives* on what led to the conflict, not shock-and-awe stories), (ii) shoot-down tactics (i.e. instead of addressing my argument, you immediately "shoot it down" with some one-liner like "Tell that to Hitler"), and (iii) hyper focusing on one-sides telling of events (we live in the west, and media outlets get all their information on military affairs from the state department...of course it's going to be skewed a little. Same exact problem with Russia media.).
Take what I said into mind, and respond again. Otherwise, I will ignore further responses.
(p.s. Being observant of both Russia and the U.S.A.'s problems in a conflict shouldn't be seen as "Russia/China = Good!". Yes, I've focused a little more on the USA's issues in my discussion thus far, but that's more because I'm speaking with somebody who's of the opinion that America is innocent, and Russia is the "bad guy!". You need to consider where the "good guy" could've gone wrong, and how this may have contributed to spurring the conflict.)
