Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

[shavenferret]

Ryuu96 said:

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Well, they have the launchers... but how many missiles do they each have?

Ukraine doesn't need that many more launchers, but they need the patriot missiles that are launched with them, and those might be not ordered in such great numbers.

Also, not all the launchers are he same. MIM 104 (the military designation of the Patriot systems) A-D (base model, PAC-1) are all the same, but E (PAC-2), F (2 variants, PAC-3 and PAC-3 MSE; the latter is also known as MEADS) and SkyCeptor (PAAC-4) all have sizes that differ from each other and from the older models, making their launchers non-compatible with the other models. The models before PAC-3 are all outdated and mostly retired by now, but even with just the current MIM-104 F and SkyCeptor systems we'll have 3 different missiles which need different canister launchers. Worse, SkyCeptor's IR tracking also needs different ground tracking equipment.

The US and Japan are the only producers of Patriot missiles, and they are currently in very high demand, with deliveries taking up to 15 months right now. As a result, more Patriot systems doesn't necessarily result in Ukraine having better air defense capabilities, as there are simply not enough missiles to feed them all.

Yeah, launchers are no issue, America alone has hundreds but obviously they need the ammunition, having said that, I don't really think they're going to need thousands of missiles, hundreds maybe? Patriots have to be layered with other air defence systems but the fact is that Patriot is the only AD that Ukraine has capable of intercepting Kinzhal IIRC.

All these countries with Patriots will obviously have ammo with them too and there are currently 17 countries fielding Patriot, with 2 more in the future. They obviously need missiles but the tweets aren't saying about finding missiles but the systems themselves, of which there's dozens out there, it's just about convincing countries to give them up.

There's a number of countries which should give an extra one up because they aren't in danger from anyone, America could easily give another one up but the aid package is being blocked by Moscow Johnson so they can't give barely anything away lately, someone may have to suck it up and acquire from America on behalf of Ukraine or Biden should figure out a damn away around Johnson.

When the F16s arrive in Ukraine, either they're going to need to arrive with a Patriot or Ukraine is doing to have to make the difficult decision of pulling back a Patriot to exclusively protect an airfield and some aircraft over defending cities and they already have to make that decision of using Patriot as an offensive weapon or defensive weapon because they don't have enough.

They really cant spare the Patriot battries in order to protect the F-16s as ujraine has only 3 batteries and 2 are protecting cities that are very far from the front (kyiv and somewhere else i think). However, the ukranians can always keep the F-16s in the rear and only bring them somewhat close briefly. And thats fine, because the F-16 has a very long range, I think I read over a 100 km for its missles. So they should keep the planes on the move and far away the front.