| Shtinamin_ said: I honestly didnt know how "bare bones" OD&D was. They've added quite a lot to it since. That's rather cool to hear about the morphing RPG's did to become what RPG's and VG RPG's are now. So do you think RPG's nowadays are missing that horror factor that OD&D had? You can get close to open ended in a VG RPG by making 100's of outcomes, scenarios, NPC encounters, loot, character development, and things that can attack. But of course those would be closed routes, but may seem open ended to the normal player. If there were 100's of options for the VG RPG could that be more closely categorized as a true RPG? |
Yeah, OD&D was very focused game of going on adventure to get a loot - what happens during that adventure is anybodies guess, but eventually you want that loot. And there are craploads of things that are standing in the way, and if you're not clever, you'll end up dead fairly soon. So players didn't feel too attached to their characters, cause they were dying fairly easily, but luckily character creation was really quick (as opposed to modern D&D). AD&D 2e, which is most successful edition before 5e, started adding "non-weapon proficiencies", in response to popularity of skill-based systems, which culminated in WotC's "reimaging" of D&D (once they bought it from TSR) and 3e being full of skills (although still not being actual unified skill based system).
TTRPGs evolved quite a bit from early days of dungeon crawling and there are all sorts of genres these days - some mechanically still focus on "simulation" part, some modern are more "narrative" (so much that they are more a collaborative storytelling than an actual game). I don't think D&D necessarily has to be about survival horror, but modern D&D lacks focus in its desire to be game for everyone, and thus it's not that good of a game for anyone. Jack of all trades, master of none, so to speak, while not being universal system (like GURPS, or BRP) that actually can support that in some capacity. Don't get me wrong, you can still get quite a millage out of it, it's just that whatever type of TTRPG you want to play there are much better offerings out there.
Technically, yes, you can get close to open ended design, if you figure out the way to account for everything players can come up with and incorporate it in the game. Practically, still no - there are way too much things you would need to account for, and if you're aiming at high production values, you'll end up with a game that costs insane amounts of money, while still not being able to reproduce TTRPG experience. BG3 is good example of VG RPG that tries that, and ultimately fails, given its very funnel based structure.
For fully open ended VG RPG you would probably need physics based world based on systems, instead of fixed mechanics and (simplified) simulation of that world to be happening behind the curtains at all times. There is some development in that direction (The Wayward Realms, being made by folks who created TES: Arena and TES: Daggerfall could be that one), but I don't think we'll actually see VG RPG that has TTRPG freedoms, while retaining player engagement, until we have fully interactable physics based game worlds and AI capable of being GM, thus being able to improvise on the spot (which what RL GMs do). I don't expect this to happen very soon, but not too far in the future either.
Don't get me wrong, I've been playing VG RPGs for 4 decades now, and enjoyed a lot of them, even with all the limitations they inherently have. And I'll keep playing them, although, to be honest, there are fewer and fewer games that even pretend trying to be open ended in design, so, as always, I keep looking at the B-Tier horizon where some ambitous devs are trying to cobble up something that will, hopefully, stand out.
Last edited by HoloDust - on 18 February 2024
