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Biggerboat1 on 04 February 2024
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Tober said:
Biggerboat1 said:

What were the chances of of Europe invading Russia?

Also, many countries could conclude that their territories would be safer if they invaded & assimilated neighbouring countries, that doesn't make it morally or ethically correct to do so.

I mean, Putin is cartoonishly evil. He kills or imprisons any & all domestic rivals. He sends scores of his young men into war undertrained & ill-equipped, they're essentially canon-fodder...

Most of his people are dirt poor whilst he and his mates skim the economy to pad their own pockets (did you see the comically over the top residence he's building himself).

He's doesn't even really pretend to preside over a democracy anymore. 

What evidence do you need to conclude that this guy is a nasty piece of shit of the highest order? 

I'm not arguing if Putin is a good guy or not. I'm saying that Russian leadership is doing what they think is right for Russia. Just like every leadership is doing, causing bad and good, thinking what is right for their own people.

On the subject of "Europe invading Russia". Well probably at the time nobody imagined Napoleon or Hitler would invade Russia, but it happened. These people think long term. What's unimaginable now, might be something that does happen. And that where we get into NATO....

We have seen that the 'West' does like its dictators, as long as they are loyal to their means. Sadam Husein was put in place in the Iran Irac war. Everybody loved Kadafi in Libya for decades. Until off course loyalties changed and they needed to go.

Is this right? Is this wrong? As a European I'm certainly in favor of the "West" wins. But this does not make me blind to the power play that is happening.

Look, you seem to be arguing in good faith, unlike the other guy, but you're being unbelievably naive. Putin is not 'doing what he thinks is right for Russia & the Russian people'. Please give one example that shows Putin gives one ounce of a shit what happens to his people? Did you see all those protestors of the invasion disappear? Or the scores thoughtlessly sent to their deaths throughout this conflict? Or really, any Russian who doesn't tow his line, what happens to those folks?

I guess Kim Jong Un really cares about his people too right? Your thinking seems to be the guy at the top of any government must really value the welfare of their citizens, despots included - again, incredibly naive. Putin has installed himself as a forever leader & somehow you conclude that he cares about the concerns of his people - like what planet are you living on?

You know what's different about Russia now compared to the Napoleon/Hiter eras? How about 6K nuclear warheads. As deterants go, I'd say they don't come much better. Who in their right mind is going to try to invade the world's biggest nuclear power? There's zero chance that an invasion was going to happen, Putin & everyone else knows that - you're making the mistake of believing anything that comes out of the guy's mouth.

There are many things in this world that are shades of grey (Isarael/Gaza for instance), but Russia/Ukraine isn't one of them. There's a clear bad guy - it's really not that complicated in this instance.

And before you say, it doesn't matter who is right & wrong, it kinda does. If this type of 'bad' behaviour is not met with consequences then it'll just encourage more of it, from Russia as well as other bad actors.

Others on this thread are very knowledgeable on this topic & I hope that you allow yourself to absorb some of what they're saying.