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[JWeinCom]

160rmf said:

JWeinCom said:

A lot of people deny that Nuts and Bolts was a great game. It was compared to the CDI Zelda games not five posts ago and I think someone is threatening violence against one of its characters XD

I think the level design for Tooie was awful. In Mario 64 or BK, and even to a lesser extent in DK64, the worlds are generally compact and have obvious landmarks to make things easy to navigate. Like, Freezeezy peak which had the christmas tree, giant Snowman, and the polar bear dude's house. It's pretty easy and intuitive to navigate, especially because you don't tend to have to go back and forth too much for each jiggy.

In Tooie on the other hand, the worlds are much larger, and often without any good landmarks to navigate. The mine level is particularly awful in this regard. This problem is exaccerbated by how much backtracking the game makes you do, sometimes even making you go through multiple levels to get some jiggies. And, you also had to switch between essentially five characters (Banjo-Kazooie, solo Banjo, solo Kazooie, transformation, Mumbo), which means even more backtracking. 

It's kind of in an awkward place where it sometimes feels closer to a Zelda game than a Mario game. Maybe some people are into that, but it's just not what I was looking for in a Banjo game. It's not a bad game, but I just can't really find a good reason to play it instead of playing Banjo-Kazooie. There are some things it does better (especially boss battles), but it's not worth putting up with the things it does worse. It's kind of like, in almost every platform game there are a few levels that make you go "Ugh I hate this one". Like Rusty Bucket Bay and to a lesser extent Click Clock Wood in BK1. But in Banjo Tooie more than half the levels give me that ugh feeling. Witchy World is cool though.  

Basically, almost every platformer tends to have a world or something where you're just like "ugh I hat this one". For Banjo-Tooie, 

I see, well almost everything you listed as a downside I found it great. I loved revisiting the worlds and discovers new things on each passage. My LEAST FAVORITE was Terrydactland. But I have to agree that the level design could be confusing in some areas, still it doesn't take away my enjoyment from that game.

Kazooie feels like a beta version of Tooie... An experiment. That snow level that you described as being good for having better placed references, I found it messy, the lack of segments make the level a complete mess, its just visually not appealing. The worlds are short, easy to find your pace, but they are messy It's really hard for me replaying, while Tooie if Nintendo put it on NSO I would play in a heartbeat.

I need to be honest with you in regards to nuts and Bolts, I was just playing devil's advocate. I actually don't like that game at all, it just ain't my thing, but I understand that is a solid experience for what is delivering and it can be enjoyed. But I also understand the huge disappointment people have for this game, as a Nintendo fan, for reasons that don't disqualify its qualities regarding the gameplay.

The customer is always right in matters of taste, so if you like that you like it. That said you seem to be acknowleding the worlds in Banjo Kazooie are more intuitive to navigate, so I'm not sure what you mean by them being a mess. More visually cluttered maybe? I guess, but I think it's more important that the game flows better than things look more spaced out. This is actually my favorite level in the series, so we're on different wave lengths. 

I didn't play Nuts and Bolts for several years after it came out because I was disappointed it wasn't a traditional platformer, and really don't like creation aspects in games too much in general. I eventually got it for dirt cheap on sale, and after coming to grips with the controls and physics wound up loving it. I think it would have done much much better as an original IP, or if they were still making traditional games and this was just a spin-off. 

psychicscubadiver said:

JWeinCom said:

Nuts and Bolts>>>Banjo Tooie

Genuinely awful take.

Not even worth explaining why. You should know better.

Nuh uh, you are.