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Ryuu96 on 26 September 2023
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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ryuu96 said:

It's a real shame that it couldn't have been largely Leopard 2's though, in the 100s. The Abrams is a great tank but it will be a logistical nightmare for Ukraine and needs a fuel truck following it constantly and staying within reach as it consumes a shit-ton of fuel whether moving or standing still. The fuel trucks won't be able to storm through certain conditions too such as snow or mud.

I don't imagine we will see Abrams storming the frontlines, it will be used in certain situations where the fuel trucks can remain safe, careful and slow movements to destroy a fortified position and then move away for other units to go through, Leopard 2 is more of a storming tank than Abrams is as it doesn't have the same logistical complications.

But we don't have enough Leopard 2's to spare, apparently. So America will have to send more of their thousands of Abrams.

There will be more Leo to come. Production lines were pretty much shut down before the war and are now reopened again, with new models to come, too. This will result in more outdated Leo models getting exchanged for more modern ones (As in, 2A5 and older), so those tanks will progessively get retired and then sent to Ukraine. Norway already started this process, sending some of their 2A4NO and ordering 2A8NO tanks to eventually completely replace the 2A4 fleet of 52 2A4 tanks (out which only 36 were operational) with 54 2A8. It will take some time though, but with all the other tanks Ukraine captured and got during the conflict, I do believe they have some margin before this can become an actual problem. Right now what is much more important are mine-clearing vehicles, tanks are not much used due to the extensive minefields.

Speaking of tanks, do you happen to know more about how's Ukraine's own tank production atm? Are they still producing new tanks or are they focussing on repairing disabled/captured tanks instead right now? As far as I know they were focusing on the T-64 in terms of production until the invasion, but might it not be more prudent over the long term to go T84 instead, specifically the Yatagan variant (or some evolution of it), which comes with a NATO-standard main gun?

Yeah, Ukraine at worst has parity with Russia on tanks, that's without even including the Leopard 2's, Challenger 2's and Abrams to come. From all the Leopard 1's, Ukraine's existing tank stock and the captured Russian tanks (quite a few T-90s). I think it was America who said that Ukraine has more tanks than Russia now in the field. Also true that mine-clearing vehicles are more important right now.

I'm wondering if some Abrams may replace some of the tanks that are no doubt sitting in Kyiv covering the Belarus border and possibly the Transnistria border which would free those tanks up to be sent to the frontlines, I don't think Ukraine will be sending dozens upon dozens of Abrams out into the frontlines given how logistically demanding it is but we'll see, Ukraine has surprised us before.

I'm not sure about Ukraine's tank production at the minute but I believe I remember posting a few months back Ukraine showing off one of their newly built tank models and announcing a new order of those, so I'm fairly confident they're still producing new tanks and investing in their own lines. The T-84U Oplot may be the one I'm thinking of.