| Ryuu96 said: Some eastern European countries take far bigger hits to their defence than some further west do, who spend months debating red lines and being cowards, either because they're scared of Russia's reaction or because they don't want Russia to lose too quickly or because they're scared to take a slight hit to their own defence because either Russia might attack them (Lmfao) or China. Then we spend months fucking around until someone finally grows some balls and makes a move, whether that be training Ukrainian troops or sending shit that they actually need, it was UK who had to make that move with tanks and I thought UK sending Storm Shadow would open the floodgates for long-range missiles, France sent some SCALP but we still have Germany and America f*cking around and stringing Ukraine along. Ukraine isn't asking for the entire damn arsenal, lets imagine UK has sent 50 Storm Shadow's and France has sent 50 SCALPS. That is 100. So send 50 ATACMS and 50 Taurus and that's 200. 200 > 100. We likely have even less Storm Shadow's than America has ATACMS but we still sent some. None of us have a "huge" amount of these missiles and so that's why we should come together and combine our stocks. But hey if it were up to me then UK would send the majority of its Storm Shadow arsenal to Ukraine, as it is being replaced by SPEAR 5 but Storm Shadow has shown so much efficiency in Ukraine that I wonder if we shouldn't produce some more! Seems like an amazing missile that doesn't even need replacing if our main enemy is struggling this much to intercept it. Unlock the 500km version too. I'm not afraid of UK taking a hit to its defence and I'm unsure why so many in the West are. Ukraine is our chance to defeat Russia and remove them from the board for the next decade at minimum. Leaving only China as a viable threat and they only become a threat if they invade Taiwan and if they invade Taiwan, the battle will largely be fought via the sky and seas, China is NOT going to be coming to invade France, Germany, UK, America, etc. Biden is pissing me off with the ATACMS nonsense. |
Yes I know and it's frustrating, have said many times in the past how Canada isn't doing its fair share for instance, being able to unlock $300B on a whim to fight covid yet when it comes to helping Ukraine they can't even manage to contribute the amount that would even just fulfill the gap for NATO required 2% annual GDP spending.
Yet the reasons being advanced as to why they don't send more now are just so bogus that I feel the need to play devil’s advocate to have better actually logical ones.
Like for ATACMS I fully agree, the ability of Ukrainians to strike Russian territory is bogus reasons, Ukraine can already strike Russia with storm shadows, and even Himars, but has shown no appetite to use those to strike Russia directly even so only for military targets. So is it the real reason or are there other more fitting undisclosed ones,
- does Ukraine even have ATACMS-ready crews
- are those crews ready to use ATACMS readily available or would they cannibalize Storm Shadows ones?
- Is intel identifying enough targets in a short enough timeframe to even fully utilize the current tactical ballistic missile capacity in Ukraine to its full potential?
- France will send scalps over the coming months but to my knowledge Ukraine has yet to receive 1, is it because France is slow or Ukraine is simply not ready in either 1-2-3 above and their capacity must be risen at the same time which slows the process down?
Let's say Ukraine has 10 Stormshadows and has the capacity to use 10 Stormshadows daily, would NATO sending 10 additional only to see every system only be used every other day actually help would it actually improve Ukraine's capacity in any way? In such a scenario, it sure would create a great PR package announcing $b additional equipment but they'll only create new targets for Russia without them actually being new threats to Russia.
But of course every time I see a new package I also wish it was way more substantial.
Last edited by EpicRandy - on 20 September 2023
