Carzy Zarx’s PC Gaming Emporium - Catch Up on All the Latest PC Gaming Related News

[Chazore]

Captain_Yuri said:

Well the problem is that AMD's "Zeus" moment feels like it was RDNA 2 and now we are seeing their downwards trend. Radeon went from competing against the 90 class which used close to full GA102 die to not only 80 class but a gimped AD103. That's a big downgrade in just one generation. So for me, it feels like that ship has sailed.

I am also not giving Nvidia slack for their Raster performance below the 90 class. In fact I have said multiple times since Lovelace launched that anything below 90 class is not worth buying at their MSRP. Now thankfully we are starting to see some real discounts and bundles. Hinch for example managed to get his 4070 Ti for like $630 while including Diablo IV for free which to me is a great deal since it ends up being more like $560 instead of $800. But the MSRP that Lovelace and RDNA 3 launched in were all terrible and I have said that many times.

As for DLSS, virtually no one other than Nvidia's marketing uses it as the sole reason to buy Nvidia cards. Nvidia using DLSS for their marketing slides shouldn't matter much anyway cause it's all BS regardless of Nvidia or AMD or Intel. I always wait for reviews before coming to a buying decision. Just look at how miss-leading Radeons own press conference about RDNA 3 was. Almost none of their performance claims came true. DLSS is an impressive upscaler and that is why so many people love it. But no one buys Nvidia cards only because of DLSS. They buy it because the competition doesn't offer better "brute force" performance to a significant degree at a similar price point. So you have this situation where Nvidia offers similar "brute force" performance in their price class compared to the competition and on top, you get DLSS, Reflex and Ray Tracing advantages. I don't think there's much of an issue with people loving DLSS because it is that good. The only time it becomes an issue is when they use DLSS to justify buying a significantly lower tier card like how some people buy a 3060 instead of a 6700XT when the XT is much cheaper. That's the only time it becomes dumb.

And Nvidia does offer competitive prices. The problem is the competition isn't competing but rather, Nvidia sets the prices and competition adjusts theirs accordingly. The 4070 for example is close in Raster against a 6800XT/6900XT while being priced similarly. 4080 is close in Raster to a 7900XTX while being priced a bit more expensive. 4070 Ti is close to Raster against a 7900XT while being cheaper. The prices all suck yes but they are competitive prices against the competition. They aren't compelling prices but they are competitive.

RDNA 2 wasn't really much of a Zeus moment. We've seen their GPU's for years be "okay". I hardly hear much about AMD's 980ti variant or even 1080ti, it's always been cards like those that were held in high regard, or hell, even the first batch of Titan cards. AMD's Zeus moment was more like years prior to that, and they haven't really taken much back since.

Yes but those discounts should be general lower prices. The discounts are also mostly based on retailers having to cut that loss, not nvidia, that's what I'm getting at with their "cock sure" pricing. Like it's cool we see a few discounts now, but why couldn't we have had this from the start, or hell, last gen or the gen before that?.

I see plenty of folks on youtube suggesting to turn on DLSS, even for benchmarking metrics I see suggested "performance mode" for those with lower tier cards, or quality for those with higher ones. it's not just a marketing gimmick that can be safely ignored, it's one of their biggest features and they make this abundantly clear in their boasted performance bar charts they keep spamming per game release or update. It's not something so small, it's a big deal, but it's a big deal that just so happens to be an undeniable band-aid.

I wouldn't exactly count D4 as a steal of a game, considering this is Blizz we're talking about, with a game that has a BP and cosmetic shop, where most of it's lead staff left before the game went gold, where all sorts of crap is going on at the company, I wouldn't even dream of holding D4 to any standard. Yes it looks shiny for a game, but I care more about the fact that staff are leaving, PVE on OW2 being cancelled, Staff not being allowed to work from home, it all gets super soured, and just because that doesn't affect you now, doesn't mean it won't later (like it did for me and WoW for 2 expacs in a solid row, and I hated it so much).

You want to know the main reason why I'm harping on DLSS so hardcore?, it's because I know Nvidia relies on tech from time to time, then it gets ditched for something else soon after, not 10-15yrs later, like we had done for previous tech advancements. Hairworks for example was lauded all the time I saw it, yet it ran like absolute ass on multiple cards and in the end, it was never really refined to a point where it could be baked in and not cause massive perf degradation. 

I also look at DLSS the same I look at ppl claiming AI will replace VA's, and I know neither should really become a reality, because that's hoping for a short term crux for a problem that didn't even need to exist in the first place. We need VA's for all sorts of media, just like we need actual dedicated hardware instead of an AI "smartly" moving shit about, and then when it's disabled, shit goes to hell.

We can look at regular brute force perf, but it's still shit when you look at what fake frames and slightly higher latency gets you. The brute force should be where DLSS is at, not the other way around, because this means regular brute forcing will now stay behind indefinitely, because of the reliance on DLSS. 

If people didn't care for DLSS, they'd go for AMD. You talk about all these "cherry on top" bonuses, but at the same time you're bigging them up to being goliath techs, but "not needed", like which is it my dude?. if it's nowhere near as important (objectively speaking here, objectively) as you try to make it out to be, then we can all just go AMD, but then you're likely to use the brute force argument, to which I go "DLSS results are better, now what?".

I can't help but feel like this is Steam in regards to Epic, like nvidia is with AMD, only Nvidia hasn't really been as clean as Steam was, compared to the stuff Epic has been doing since they flat out abandoned us for yrs, came back and pulled all this shit.

Epic isn't trying because they never cared for competition, they actually mocked us when they left the platform and came back in such a childish and arrogant manner. AMD isn't doing that, AMD just doesn't have the capital or mindshare Nvidia has, so what hope on gods earth do you have to topple all of that in one generation? (You can't, you absolutely cannot tell me with a straight face that shit is going to magically change next gen, because it hasn't for 3-4 gens now Yuri, don't tell me it will).