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Chazore said:

Captain_Yuri said:

What do you mean they aren't going to make much more in the long term? They legit made 1.8 Billion dollars in a single quarter because of gaming during a recession. They are coming out with new features every generation in gaming that the competition can't even keep up with. They popularized Ray Tracing, then they came out with DLSS 2 which still has has no equivalence, then they came out with DLSS 3 which also has no equivalence not to mention Reflex, now they are pouring R&D into neural texture compression, path tracing and plenty of other things related to gaming. They wouldn't pour so much R&D into gaming if they weren't here to stay. If anything, they would be the least innovative when it comes to gaming if what you are saying is true but they have been the opposite.

What you should be asking is what the competition is doing to gain a chunk of that 80% that Nvidia has. What innovate features has either Radeon or Intel come up with that gives Nvidia a run for their money? It also sounds like you keep thinking DLSS is the only reason anyone buys Nvidia but the fact of the matter is that people buy Nvidia because first and foremost, the Raster performance is competitive if not faster than the competition. DLSS, Ray Tracing and Reflex are the cherry on top that makes people choose Nvidia when Raster is similar or close enough. So if Nvidia has competitive pricing vs the competition with competitive Raster performance and good amount of vram along with all the Nvidia features that has no equivalence, why would people choose the competition?

The reality is that Nvidia does what the market gives them the opportunity to do. RDNA 2 was very competitive so what does Nvidia do? Makes their cards equally if not more competitive. RDNA 3 is not all that competitive so what does Nvidia do? Exploit the market. If there is more competition from AMD or Intel, Nvidia will react accordingly as proven by Ampere. And the reason is because they are here to stay. And yes, Ai and all that are big money makes but this isn't one or the other situation. Nvidia can have gaming and Ai because they make so much money that they can make profit on both.

I mean in that they expect the same growth they had during the past 3 yrs, and because of that they've raised the prices, cut the VRAM into two parts per GPU and now rely on DLSS to push some perf forward. You can't expect to keep going up and up, when you're actively trying hard to fuck the majority of us over with these prices and cutbacks, and expect insane growth to just keep skyrocketing, that's not how this works.

Jensen and anyone at Nvidia are perfectly capable of being a typical human who can "expect" something to keep going their way indefinitely, but that doesn't mean to say they will be right.

Even when they came out with RT, we all pretty much have that now.

DLSS, why do we keep championing a band-aid? (being serious, like it or not, without it we actually get shit perf, and that absolutely should not be the norm for what we've been rolling with for 30+ years now).

How am I to ask AMD to suddenly become Zeus and strike Nvidia down with such raw power?. You know nvidia owns 80% of the market and both Intel/AMD are playing catch up, how are they ever going to catch up when Nvidia had so much going for them for years now?. Whenever people say RTX, they think of RT, like that's insanely bad to have that kind of mindshare for nvidia, and AMD/Intel will never have that, not now, not ever, Nvidia won that mindshare from the start by coining their brand "RTX". 

It's like the case of Sony having that mindshare since the PS1 days, they only lost part of it during the PS3 era, but since gained that back near the end and haven't really lost it since, but meanwhile, MS is just losing battle after battle, and you gotta ask "why bother, if it's going to be a repeat on and on?".

I can't help but get the feeling you're pulling this topic into a "give Nvidia it's due kudos", and I'm not really into that sorta thing. Like I get it, you and I own nvidia cards, but c'mon man, the current stack is garbage compared to the 4090, we're relying on a band-aid, the competition can't really do shit, and I haven't been able to get a *good* Nvidia card for years now (I actually have to settle for less, due to the pricing and the stack literally being stacked against me, because I don't have an insanely high wage job, and the recession literally kicking anyone that isn't rich right in the ass).

I don't think DLSS is the reason ppl buy the cards?. My main issue is THEY, Nvidia, are relying on DLSS and you can undeniably see this in their perf metric charts, when it comes to "boasting". I don't care what anyone here thinks about the tech, we don't and shouldn't be praising fake frames or AI generated shit when brute force can't do anything. it means we're solely reliant on DLSS, and that is shit, no matter how you try to spin how good it is, we SHOULDN'T have to rely on it in the first place.

If Nvidia actually gave competitive prices, and the WHOLE stack was objectively the bees knees, then yes, why would anyone bother with the competition?, but that's not where we're at Yuri, the prices aren't great at all, neither is SPLITTING the VRAM in half and trying to sell off the 16gb variants for 100 more a pop, that's bullshit and you know it.

Of course they do what they can, because ppl allow them to, that's why we've got 90 series now, and why the 80 series has been fucked over into no mans land of being the 4070 and so on. I tell you this now, like I have many a times to others before: Casuals do indeed not give a fuck what they buy into, and those with the biggest pockets to burn cash don't either (Why do you think the rich don't give a fuck about the middle class currently fading into obscurity and the poor class getting fucked even harder). I'm price conscious, I was once middle class, I know what's going on and it's shit, and I can't climb back, because the world likes to work that way, so I'm left with getting less and less as a result.

Well the problem is that AMD's "Zeus" moment feels like it was RDNA 2 and now we are seeing their downwards trend. Radeon went from competing against the 90 class which used close to full GA102 die to not only 80 class but a gimped AD103. That's a big downgrade in just one generation. So for me, it feels like that ship has sailed.

I am also not giving Nvidia slack for their Raster performance below the 90 class. In fact I have said multiple times since Lovelace launched that anything below 90 class is not worth buying at their MSRP. Now thankfully we are starting to see some real discounts and bundles. Hinch for example managed to get his 4070 Ti for like $630 while including Diablo IV for free which to me is a great deal since it ends up being more like $560 instead of $800. But the MSRP that Lovelace and RDNA 3 launched in were all terrible and I have said that many times.

As for DLSS, virtually no one other than Nvidia's marketing uses it as the sole reason to buy Nvidia cards. Nvidia using DLSS for their marketing slides shouldn't matter much anyway cause it's all BS regardless of Nvidia or AMD or Intel. I always wait for reviews before coming to a buying decision. Just look at how miss-leading Radeons own press conference about RDNA 3 was. Almost none of their performance claims came true. DLSS is an impressive upscaler and that is why so many people love it. But no one buys Nvidia cards only because of DLSS. They buy it because the competition doesn't offer better "brute force" performance to a significant degree at a similar price point. So you have this situation where Nvidia offers similar "brute force" performance in their price class compared to the competition and on top, you get DLSS, Reflex and Ray Tracing advantages. I don't think there's much of an issue with people loving DLSS because it is that good. The only time it becomes an issue is when they use DLSS to justify buying a significantly lower tier card like how some people buy a 3060 instead of a 6700XT when the XT is much cheaper. That's the only time it becomes dumb.

And Nvidia does offer competitive prices. The problem is the competition isn't competing but rather, Nvidia sets the prices and competition adjusts theirs accordingly. The 4070 for example is close in Raster against a 6800XT/6900XT while being priced similarly. 4080 is close in Raster to a 7900XTX while being priced a bit more expensive. 4070 Ti is close to Raster against a 7900XT while being cheaper. The prices all suck yes but they are competitive prices against the competition. They aren't compelling prices but they are competitive.