(Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

[DonFerrari]

Azzanation said:

DonFerrari said:

Seems quite clear that you really don't understand business even though you claim a lot you do. Sega was making lousy decisions since they started the idea of the Sega 32x, Sega CD and it only got worse on architecture decision for Saturn (like improvising the 3D chip for it), so sure Sony likely made their life even worse (as their decisions on Dreamcast show), but they were doing the bad decisions by themselves long before Sony even entered the console market and just to remember Playstation only really started to get traction with the launch of FFVII.

As a business standpoint Ryu is wrong, and you will see very soon who is right in the coming years when we no longer see future Xbox hardware which would make you very happy Don. 

Sega was struggling to compete because they were unable to secure 3rd party support. It was an issue when they were head to head with Nintendo which forced them to make their own titles plus go into the sport genre. Sony entered and Sega had no chance on competing as Sony took the 3rd party market away. You need to do research. Sega's downfall wasn't done due to optional accessories on the Genisis. Nintendo also had some pretty bad optional accessories as well. Sega fell when Sony entered and made the Saturn obsolete.

Sony entered the market and moneyhatted 250 Japanese devs at launch. Thats what killed Sega and almost Nintendo too.

Ryuu96 said:

Nobody is going to be happy seeing Xbox turn from a $16bn business to a $10bn or less business, Microsoft needs to maintain the same size by going third party and that same size is double ABK, Lol.

All of the improvements above would increase Console sales too though and thus even more $$$ on the 30% cut.

Ryu its simple, 100m GP Subs will earn more money than everything Xbox hardware offers and their 3rd party cut from games. $1b a month, $12b a year without the expense of hardware manufacturing. This is the direction, and this is achievable. They will need to make the cut with Live and consoles to move forward which will only hurt the small fanbase Xbox has but it will be what makes them grow.

I really dont get your point with porting games? Porting isnt an issue today and if games are made with PS moving forward, they wont need to port them. 

ABK is worth $70b and they strive without making hardware. MS know this. 

What i am saying out of all of this is Subs > Hardware. Get GP on everything. Sony will want Xbox games as they also have Bethesda games and Sony wouldn't want to lose out on Elder Scrolls, Fallout etc. These are system sellers. If Sony say no, than Nintendo would love those titles which will increase Switch sales. 

Machiavellian said:

But MS hardware does sell, maybe its not selling enough for you but it sells enough for MS to make a profit off that hardware so not sure about that conclusion.

Who cares if Epic was upsetting people, what Epic did do was provide competition.  With competition it also puts Valve on noticed to not become complacent.  Epic store may never become close to Valve but it doesn't matter because they are in the space and Valve has to consider the challenge and continue to update their store to remain competitive.

Don pretty much covered your Sega argument so no need to go over that history

Hell NO, give Sony the monopoly and we all have to work 3 jobs to afford the next PS system.  Sony would not need to sell at a loss which would increase the cost of the system.  Sony would not need to discount their games at a proper time it would be like Nintendo where their games can be out for over 2 years with the same price.  You give Sony a monopoly but then you believe that in the gracious heart of Sony they would allow MS to put GP on Sony platform.  Yeah that is  big reach.  That niche market is valued 64 billion dollars 

70 billion is ABK price as a company, you did not show what they make in revenue which is 7.5 billion annually.  Now you take MS gaming division annual sales at 15 billion and currently MS makes double what the biggest publisher makes currently.  The evidence doesn't support your opinion and its been pretty well laid out by Ryuu which you have not once provided any real data to dispute it. 

Instead, your opinion if rooted in best case scenarios on GP being the magic service that will double MS revenue without MS hardware.  Also your opinion is reliant on Sony allowing some form of GP on their platform and that MS will be selling more software on Sony platform compared to how much they sell on their own.  Your opinion forgets that MS selling on Sony platform will come at a cost, 30% cut to Sony, license fees for publishing rights.  Even if MS is able to get GP on Sony platform, in what form.  Definitely not any form that competes directly with what Sony offers which will make the service worse.  I doubt Sony is going to allow day one first party for GP on their platform forcing them to respond.

As a business standpoint you have not provided any real counter to the data Ryuu presented.  Most of your replies were one line sentence that basically said, GP will save the day.  No one doubts the benefit of GP currently but without hardware, you have not given any data which says it will sell outside of MS hardware and garner enough subs to make up the difference in loss revenue.

Don's point of Sega is inaccurate.

I could care less what Sony sell their systems for, that's up to those who trust Sony to do the right thing.

PC doesn't didn't need competition. Nothing suggested it needed it. 

The goal is subs. GP is capable of making $1b a month and more if they can get it on more devices and not be hampered down by its own hardware. Remove the hardware, eat the losses and the upset fans, and spread GP to more and more people. It's a "lose a customer, and gain 3 more scenario."

As i stated with Ryu, 100m GP subs will outweighs everything Xbox hardware brings in. TVs, PS, Switch, PC, Mobile all capable to run GP and that is the goal. Sony will most likely accept GP if they don't have to compete with Xbox hardware and MS will surely modify it to suit Sony's needs. 

Why do people think Sony will say no to GP? The service that will be offering the next Elder Scrolls, Doom, Fallout, Halo, Gears, Forza etc? GP will only increase PS sales which is what Sony want, as long as it doesn't eat into their Store front of 3rd party games.

Sure I can see that at some point in time MS doesn't need the console making anymore, maybe in 10 years. But at this point in time it is a lot more beneficial to them than not having, otherwise guess what MS would have cut the console making 100% from their plan. GP was already on going before launch of Series (that Phil Spencer said at the time could win against PS in sales). If MS thought it would make more profit not launching Series and going 100% third party be that launching their games on PS or only through GP they would have decided. MS certainly knows their internal numbers better than you do.

I'm sure you can give proper evidence that Sony bought exclusivity from 250 developers on the launch of PS, it certainly had so many titles at launch kkkkk.