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SvennoJ on 28 August 2022
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Qwark said:
Alistair said:

Well the military budget is actually very small now compared to historically. Last time the US really cut spending, it caused the Korean war (most people don't realize that the US almost stopped spending after WW2 and only went back up because of Korea). I'd rather the US keep at least a small deterrent. The loan money is useless and will go to rampant consumption and inflation. At least the military has a purpose.

I just looked it up. Current military spending is 1/3 what it was just 60 years ago. I think because so much spending has been added to the Federal government budget for SO MANY THINGS that people don't realize that military spending is actually not that high. It has also dropped by almost 40 percent since the withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan started.

These are 2020 numbers but all U.S. discretionary spending is only ~2 trillion. Meanwhile mandatory spending is ~ 5 trillion. 

You want to go to Mars? Lots of money out there. Mandatory spending is retirement money and health care mostly. Social security is what it is called. If people just manage their own retirements through savings, and living with family members, raising the retirement age to 70, that would free up almost 2 trillion dollars per year in funds. You don't even have to touch the wasteful end of life health care spending. 

2 trillion per year could get you to Mars. Pretty sure.

So you want to cut pensions just so you can send some people to Mars. I don't think the general public will respond well to that. Last time I checked the military budget of the USA alone is bigger than the rest of the world combined, that is including its (very frugal read European, aside from France and UK) allies.

Even if they halve the budget no country in their right mind would invade a US ally, let alone US itself. As for non allies, we can't stop the Russian federation and the Chinese on that end anyway. Chi a still has their illegal islands and Russia still bombs the shit out of Ukrain every day.

I rather invest 2 trillion a year in availability of sustainable energy and a conversion to a circular economy. So that our own planet remains habitable instead of turning it into a wasteland. We are doing quite the opposite si far and we are now seeing results. From massive draughts, to enormous wildfires in Russia and a ever expanding Sahara desert.

When we fixed most issues on this blue orb, sure let's go to Mars, but till then we might want to spend our very limited funds a bit different. Otherwise we might not even have a functioning economy long enough to make it happen. For example how well would the world economy react if the Port of Rotterdam (by far Europe's biggest harbour) and Amsterdam would be no longer functional, cause of a flood.

It could happen if the waters rise with 2 meters for which only 5% of East Antarctica has to melt. Or less if due to a hotter north eastern Atlantic Ocean, tropical storms can also reach Europe. A small hurricane has already reached the Assores in 2019. Many coastal infrastructure in Europe isn't build for these kind of events and the downfall of some European countries and quite possibly the flooding of at least 40% of homes in NL would put the world economy in a big crisis.

Agreed, hence Nuclear Fusion first, then Hydrogen fuel cell economy and desalination plants, then Mars.

Of course advances in Nuclear Fusion will be very useful for space travel as well.

Cutting on pensions does nothing. All that money that goes into keeping old people alive goes right back into the economy. It's not lost, old people buy things, leave the rest of their money to their children who buy things. Health care pays for the lives of the doctors and their dependents (although wages and prices in healthcare are out of control in the USA, but that's a problem with big pharma having too much influence on politics)

The military budget also employs many many people, it's a sort of welfare as well. Not as efficient as other sectors though: $1 billion in military spending creates approximately 11,200 jobs, compared with 26,700 in education, 16,800 in clean energy, and 17,200 in health care.
Not much gets produced and what gets produced creates more work, fixing people or fixing the mess left behind.

Cutting on the military budget is the most efficient. Military budget is a sink hole. Pension funds at least still create money for new business ventures and we've just seen how important healthcare is to keep the world running through a pandemic.