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[Jizz_Beard_thePirate]

Pemalite said:

Captain_Yuri said:

The videos you have listed aren't very good examples of the issue at hand. I'll admit, partially would be my fault since I should have actually listed the videos. Yes Ray Tracing is primarily GPU bound but DF has noticed that many aspects are in fact CPU bound to the point where a 3600 can't hold 60fps.

Of course, the fix is just to turn down a couple RT settings and a 3000 series can go well above 60FPS but with a 5800X3D, that shouldn't be needed. There is no doubt that 3600 can get over 60fps in many modern titles, especially without RT. But the point I am trying to make is when we really start pushing the CPU with next generation settings, that is where it starts to struggle. Now I am not saying it's a bad CPU, this problem is also happening with old Intel CPUs like 10th gen and such. Because the problem with the modern PC industry is the GPUs generational jumps are far exceeding CPUs to the point where a lot of the CPUs are becoming the bottleneck even at higher resolutions and a lot of it has to do with ST and the games don't seem to scale up much more than 8 cores.

Also you are acting like a 5800X3D can't do multitasking when infact, a 8 core 16 threaded CPU can do very well at multitasking. There are certainly tasks that having more cores than that would help in. I bought my 5950x because I need to use virtual machines for work and I like to test configs before deploying them. That is something that having more cores over ST will help with. But even then, you can deploy 5-6 virtual machines before a 5800X3D would start to struggle. For me, it's not so much that 3000 series are obsolete but more so that 5000 series is simply a better pairing and will also be cheap when Ryzen 7000/RTX 4000 comes out.

Anyway I think it's time to move on since my road trip is coming up so I'll agree to disagree.

I guess you didn't watch the video?
Even digital foundry shows they went from 38fps to 58fps by dropping RT ray tracing resolution from very high to high, which again proves my prior point that Ray Tracing is GPU bound, not CPU.
They also state you get an extra 20% more performance by dropping Ray Tracing geometry from very high to high.

These are GPU bound settings, not CPU.

Now when they are comparing Ray Tracing object draw distance, that has a CPU impact due to the extra CPU load in regards to A.I and scripting, the others really don't.
And Digital Foundry also state that CPU's with "Greater core counts and speed" should just dial it up. That would include the 3900/3950X.

But if you turn all the Ray Tracing settings to very high and push the game to 4k, then it doesn't matter if you have a 3600 or 5800X3D, you are going to be GPU bound first and foremost.

It's about achieving "good enough" performance where it is acceptable... And one game being outlier isn't a trend that is industry wide either, especially when I threw a ton of games out into the open in my prior post to prove that point.

Captain_Yuri said:

Also you are acting like a 5800X3D can't do multitasking when infact, a 8 core 16 threaded CPU can do very well at multitasking. There are certainly tasks that having more cores than that would help in. I bought my 5950x because I need to use virtual machines for work and I like to test configs before deploying them. That is something that having more cores over ST will help with. But even then, you can deploy 5-6 virtual machines before a 5800X3D would start to struggle. For me, it's not so much that 3000 series are obsolete but more so that 5000 series is simply a better pairing and will also be cheap when Ryzen 7000/RTX 4000 comes out.

Anyway I think it's time to move on since my road trip is coming up so I'll agree to disagree.

Far from it. But the 3900/3950/5900/5950X leave the 5800X3D in the dirt as far as multitasking is concerned. You can double your performance.

I don't disagree that the 5000 series is a better buy, if your motherboard supports it, I wouldn't even consider the 3000 series if that support exists, but the point is to get a performance improvement for the lowest dollar cost in the short and long term, the 5800X3D isn't always going to be the right answer.

"I guess you didn't watch the video?
Even digital foundry shows they went from 38fps to 58fps by dropping RT ray tracing resolution from very high to high, which again proves my prior point that Ray Tracing is GPU bound, not CPU.
They also state you get an extra 20% more performance by dropping Ray Tracing geometry from very high to high.

These are GPU bound settings, not CPU.

Now when they are comparing Ray Tracing object draw distance, that has a CPU impact due to the extra CPU load in regards to A.I and scripting, the others really don't.
And Digital Foundry also state that CPU's with "Greater core counts and speed" should just dial it up. That would include the 3900/3950X.

But if you turn all the Ray Tracing settings to very high and push the game to 4k, then it doesn't matter if you have a 3600 or 5800X3D, you are going to be GPU bound first and foremost.

It's about achieving "good enough" performance where it is acceptable... And one game being outlier isn't a trend that is industry wide either, especially when I threw a ton of games out into the open in my prior post to prove that point."

Yes, most of the video is about GPU because the entire video isn't about trying to prove CPUs being a bottleneck when it comes to Ray Tracing but there is a section where DF shows the CPU bottleneck. I also never said it was only CPU bound. I have no idea where you got that idea. The post you are quoting to says "Yes Ray Tracing is primarily GPU bound but DF has noticed that many aspects are in fact CPU bound to the point where a 3600 can't hold 60fps." Ray Tracing is primarily GPU heavy but as DF says in this video and many others, there are certain RT settings that heavily affect CPU utilization as well because of the BVH buidling amongst other reasons. When you enable the setting is called "RT Object Range" because now the CPU has to calculate the reflected Ray Traced Ai and such as well on top of it's normal calculations. Hence why it's a Ray Tracing setting because without it, the CPU doesn't need to calculate it.

And yes, higher core count will help but as DF said, with newer CPUs, you can turn it up to max. You could also do your own research and see how it scales with cores vs ST performance:

You can clearly see that even with a 3900X, the fps doesn't increase. This is also not just a single game, the CPU bound issue happened in their Unreal Engine 5 video and many others. You would know that if you did more research and watched more DF videos. And this is just cross platform. Next gen only games will continue to be higher. It's also about achieving optimal performance with the least amount of bottlenecks. You keep talking about long term yet all you have done is shown us short term thinking by not doing enough research before recommending a CPU that will clearly bottleneck the 4080 GPU. Just because a person gets a 4080 doesn't mean that they will play at 4k Native. They can play at 4k with DLSS or they can play 3440x1440p as well as many other methods. But with 3000 series, you are literally just limiting their options in games. Not to mention a 4080 is supposed to be 30-50% faster than a 3090.

And yes, you threw in a ton of bad examples because they are all GPU bound due to the hardware pairing... While we are talking about a scenario that's about CPU limitations...

"Far from it. But the 3900/3950/5900/5950X leave the 5800X3D in the dirt as far as multitasking is concerned. You can double your performance."

You can double your performance only in certain applications. You can also "multitask" many applications by leaving them to the GPU instead which depending on the app, can make a much greater difference.

"I don't disagree that the 5000 series is a better buy, if your motherboard supports it, I wouldn't even consider the 3000 series if that support exists, but the point is to get a performance improvement for the lowest dollar cost in the short and long term, the 5800X3D isn't always going to be the right answer."

Sure but in the scenario we are talking about, 5800X3D is the obvious answer cause otherwise, he may need to upgrade is RAM if he went with any other CPU among other issues if he goes with Ryzen 3000.

Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 18 August 2022