Pemalite said:
Captain_Yuri said:
"Not a single one of those games is under 120fps. That makes the 3950X is fine."
You do realize that those are very old games right? You should watch DF's RT video and realize how much of a bottleneck the 3000 series really is when you enable Ray Tracing which is very CPU intensive. We have seen through multiple games that 3000 series can't hold 60fps when you max out RT even with a 3080 let alone 4080.
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Even digital foundry has the Ryzen 3600+Geforce RTX 2600 at over 60fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKHiwnZ3zJo&t=648s
Ryzen 3600+Geforce RTX 3050 also getting over 60fps in cyberpunk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtrN_gnqaB8
Ryzen 3600 averaging 80fps in Call of Duty Cold War, 60fps in Control, 120fps in Wolfenstein, 60fps in Watchdogs, 70fps in Metro, 70fps in Tomb Raider, 70fps in Battlefield 5... When paired up with a mid range RTX 3060 Ti. - A faster GPU would obviously provide higher framerates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9FX6mi3QA
And here... Digital Foundry has Doom Eternal with Ray Tracing on a Ryzen 3600 obtaining 120fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5ZyVYlq5A&t=202s
Ray Tracing is primarily GPU bound, especially at higher resolutions.
And considering you can obtain that performance from a crappy Ryzen 3600... Which is only a 6-Core/12-Thread CPU @ 3.8Ghz-4.4Ghz+32MB of cache verses the 3950X which is 16 Cores/32 Theads @ 3.5-4.7Ghz+64MB of cache.
You get the idea. - And yes, I know what a Ryzen 3600 is capable of, I owned one last year for overclocking tests. I also own Ray Tracing GPU's, got experience first hand.
And like you alluded too earlier... Cache isn't to be underestimated.
The 3950X or even 3900XT (Has higher clocks) is a great chip for EOL platforms which can't go any higher.
Captain_Yuri said:
As a 5950X and a 3080 owner, I am aware of the benefits of higher core count but as a general recommendation, it really doesn't benefit most people compared to ST performance. Especially if the higher core count CPU will introduce a significant bottleneck for the GPU. And as a person who had 3900X + 3080 that played at 3440 x 1440p who eventually got a 5950x instead. The CPU bottleneck was there because I certainly got a frame rate increase by going to 5000 series.
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You know... People have been singing that tune for decades.
Back when Dual Core CPU's first released, it didn't benefit games to any great extent... They were all single threaded.
Eventually games started to use more than 1-CPU core... And those early (Athlon 64 X2) CPU's got an extra long relevant lifetime because of it.
When the Core 2 series burst onto the scene, people always recommended the higher clocked Core 2 Duo over something like the Core 2 Quad, however as games started to leverage 4 threads, the Core 2 Quad was simply capable of gaming for longer.
History eventually repeated itself with Nahelem and the 980X with it's 6 cores/12 threads. - And now that's regarded as bare minimum these days for gaming.
And obviously you will get a frame-rate increase going from the 3000 series to the 5000 series, that was the point of the entire new CPU generation and architecture, but it doesn't make the previous generation obsolete, far from it.
Regardless of GPU you have, if you install a faster CPU, you get more performance.
But then you step into the shoes of a power user like myself who might only run old single/dual threaded games, but still has a 16 core 5000 series processor. Why? Because I run more than one thing at once.
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The videos you have listed aren't very good examples of the issue at hand. I'll admit, partially would be my fault since I should have actually listed the videos. Yes Ray Tracing is primarily GPU bound but DF has noticed that many aspects are in fact CPU bound to the point where a 3600 can't hold 60fps.
Of course, the fix is just to turn down a couple RT settings and a 3000 series can go well above 60FPS but with a 5800X3D, that shouldn't be needed. There is no doubt that 3600 can get over 60fps in many modern titles, especially without RT. But the point I am trying to make is when we really start pushing the CPU with next generation settings, that is where it starts to struggle. Now I am not saying it's a bad CPU, this problem is also happening with old Intel CPUs like 10th gen and such. Because the problem with the modern PC industry is the GPUs generational jumps are far exceeding CPUs to the point where a lot of the CPUs are becoming the bottleneck even at higher resolutions and a lot of it has to do with ST and the games don't seem to scale up much more than 8 cores.
Also you are acting like a 5800X3D can't do multitasking when infact, a 8 core 16 threaded CPU can do very well at multitasking. There are certainly tasks that having more cores than that would help in. I bought my 5950x because I need to use virtual machines for work and I like to test configs before deploying them. That is something that having more cores over ST will help with. But even then, you can deploy 5-6 virtual machines before a 5800X3D would start to struggle. For me, it's not so much that 3000 series are obsolete but more so that 5000 series is simply a better pairing and will also be cheap when Ryzen 7000/RTX 4000 comes out.
Anyway I think it's time to move on since my road trip is coming up so I'll agree to disagree.
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