Pemalite said:
Captain_Yuri said:
Dual vs Single shouldn't have much affect because the point of Vcache is not go onto Ram.
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This I am aware of. But it closes the gaps for the chips that don't have vcache. Hence my point in my prior post.
Captain_Yuri said:
You are also not looking at the cost factor and the early adopter tax. AM5 and DDR5 are both new platforms which means they have a high price if you want them and the result is only 10-15% increase in CPU performance if you go with Zen 4. Where as if he spends $320 and gets 5800X3D + X570, he can wait till AMD has a CPU that's 60-70% faster than his current CPU. The benefit by that point is AM5 motherboards will be cheap and DDR5 will also be cheap and he gets a huge boost in CPU performance instead of paying the early adopter tax while enjoying a significantly faster gaming performance by going with a 4080 instead of 4070.
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Again. Long term costs.
Buying AM5+DDR5 may not be more expensive than buying AM4+X5800X3D+The next platform.
That is the point I am making here.
Captain_Yuri said:
"Gaming performance is where the 5800X3D takes a front and center role, with a few instances of 50% performance lead, but most games are closer."
They are closer but the gap is still huge. The only one that's close is GTA V and I am sure that one is running into a GPU limitation or Engine limitation. But all of these are old games and not counting the new Ray Tracing performance hit that a 3950X will get killed at because while Zen 2 was good for it's time, isn't aging very well in gaming.
3950x vs 5800X3D from your link:
Civilization VI: 127 vs 188
Final Fantasy 14: 190 vs 338
World of Tanks: 664 vs 724
Borderlands 3: 147 vs 242
Gears Tactics: 262 vs 419
Grand Theft Auto V: 165 vs 186
Red Dead 2: 144 vs 234
Strange Brigade DX12: 414 vs 595
And sure, a 3950x might be cheap but now he has to spend money on higher tier Ram where as with 5800X3D, he doesn't.
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Not a single one of those games is under 120fps. That makes the 3950X is fine.
He may not have to spend money on better Ram.
Again, it's making those assessments to make the best bang-for-buck choice, the market is littered with fantastic products, it doesn't start and stop with the 5800X3D.
Weigh your options.
Captain_Yuri said:
My point is, there are CPU's that might be a better fit for someones current financial predicament, long-term plans or usage scenarios that makes the 5800X3D an absolute terrible buy, keep your options open."
Sure there are areas where a 3950x is better at but a lot of Transcoding/encoding/modelling/art stuff can all be done by the 4080 thanks to CUDA acceleration which is in majority of the programs these days and can be done much faster than a 3950x. GN did plenty of videos about this where you don't need a high core count CPU for a lot of tasks as long as you have a good GPU. I am not denying the fact that there are certain areas that a higher core count CPU will be better in but so far, he hasn't indicated anything that would suggest he needs high core count CPU over a strong gaming CPU to power the 4080. Cause a 3950X will absolutely hold the 4080 back compared to a 5800X3D.
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Both CPU's will be fine. I am not suggesting he *has* to upgrade to the 3950X, just suggesting it as an option.
Just like AM5+DDR5 is another option.
And just like sticking with his current CPU and overclocking it hard is another option.
GPU transcoding/encoding/art stuff has been around for decades... And for over a decade, they have been GPU accelerated, but anyone who has a high-core count CPU like myself, knows the GPU can't do everything yet.
The advantage of high-core count CPU's is especially prevalent when you are doing tasks other than just gaming... Or when games start to get heavier threading support. (Which is happening, 6-cores are regarded as minimum now in terms of thread counts.)
If you are buying an RTX 4080 or better, then we must assume that 4k is going to be the target resolution, otherwise that is wasted hardware.
And from there, the CPU becomes even less relevant as you will be GPU bound anyway.
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"Again. Long term costs.
Buying AM5+DDR5 may not be more expensive than buying AM4+X5800X3D+The next platform.
That is the point I am making here."
But there is a very good chance it won't because of the early adopter tax on a new platform. If he waits a few years, he can get AM5 and DDR5 for cheap instead of having to pay the early adopter premium while enjoying the 30-50% extra performance he can get by going with 5800X3D + X570 + 4080 instead of 7700X + X670 + DDR5 + 4070.
And if you really want to talk about long term costs, we have seen how drastically the CPU/Mobo/Ram prices can drop but we have also seen how drastically the GPU prices can increase. If there's one lesson we learnt in the past two Crypto booms killing GPU prices... Is that it's better to get the best GPU you can over other components as long as the other components are reasonably good.
CPU/Mobo/Ram prices will only get cheaper the longer you wait after their initial release but there is no guarantee GPU prices will.
"Not a single one of those games is under 120fps. That makes the 3950X is fine."
You do realize that those are very old games right? You should watch DF's RT video and realize how much of a bottleneck the 3000 series really is when you enable Ray Tracing which is very CPU intensive. We have seen through multiple games that 3000 series can't hold 60fps when you max out RT even with a 3080 let alone 4080.
"The advantage of high-core count CPU's is especially prevalent when you are doing tasks other than just gaming... Or when games start to get heavier threading support. (Which is happening, 6-cores are regarded as minimum now in terms of thread counts.)"
As a 5950X and a 3080 owner, I am aware of the benefits of higher core count but as a general recommendation, it really doesn't benefit most people compared to ST performance. Especially if the higher core count CPU will introduce a significant bottleneck for the GPU. And as a person who had 3900X + 3080 that played at 3440 x 1440p who eventually got a 5950x instead. The CPU bottleneck was there because I certainly got a frame rate increase by going to 5000 series.
Last edited by Jizz_Beard_thePirate - on 15 August 2022
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