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Pemalite said:

Captain_Yuri said:

So unless he has really bad ram, I don't think it will matter too much.

It will still matter later on when the cache is no longer sufficient and has to access DRAM. Although definitely less likely.

That benchmark also didn't differentiate between single/dual ranked DRAM which can have a pretty tangible effect on Ryzen, sometimes more than the frequency.

Captain_Yuri said:

Personally I don't agree with the statement "once we start replacing more than one component, it's better to do a whole platform change" because it depends on the situation. Spending $320 on a CPU + Mobo upgrade is a lot less than spending $800 on a CPU + Mobo + Ram upgrade when it's very likely the $800 system upgrade will offer at best 10-15% more performance than $320 upgrade. And if we take AMDs own word for it with the current information we have, it will either tie or Zen 4 will be 5-10% ahead of 5800X3D. That's a lot of money to throw away instead of upgrading to a higher tier 4000 series GPU which he indicated that he wanted to do.

A platform change will give him component longevity for the next generation of parts.
Where-as any CPU he gets now, will probably not carry forwards... And won't have better options later.
Doesn't make sense to replace the board with another board that still limits him to the same class/generation of hardware.

So if you are going to swap the motherboard and CPU, I always believe it's better to spend a little extra and jump to the next socket. If it's just the CPU? Sure, that's a great bang for buck option.

But keep in mind that there is probably a 100% performance jump between the Ryzen 7 1800x and Ryzen 7 5800X3D, what's to say the next socket won't have the same kind of performance leap over the long term?

So yes, there is only a 10-15% performance improvement with the new platform change, but you need to look at the bigger picture and the longer term.

Captain_Yuri said:

I also don't fully agree with going with Ryzen 3950X but I get where you are coming from. DF showed us that between a 3600 and a 12900K in the spiderman RT game, the 3600 ran at 70 fps whole 12900K ran at 130fps. That's a huge gap and a 5800X3D is pretty close to a 12900K in terms of gaming performance. And a 3600 can't keep it above 60fps when you really max it out. And don't forget that 3950X is more sensitive to RAM speeds than 5800X3D. I agree it's about weighing options but imo, Ryzen 3000 and below shouldn't be a consideration because how quickly prices come down on CPUs.

I am talking from the perspective that he is CPU limited and the current board doesn't support the 5800X3D.

You have three options.

Get the best CPU you can (I.E. 3950X), CPU+Motherboard upgrade (5800X3D+x570), new platform. (Ryzen 7000+X670).

If I was board limited I would drop in the 3950X, it would give it years worth of extra life... And unlike the 3600, has the threads and frequency to be a fairly big step up.
Plus the 3950X -will- outperform the 5800X3D in heavily threaded scenarios.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2666?vs=2907

Gaming performance is where the 5800X3D takes a front and center role, with a few instances of 50% performance lead, but most games are closer.

The Ryzen 3000 series can be found cheaply second hand these days too. Win win.

Captain_Yuri said:

I also don't fully agree with going with Ryzen 3950X but I get where you are coming from. DF showed us that between a 3600 and a 12900K in the spiderman RT game, the 3600 ran at 70 fps whole 12900K ran at 130fps. That's a huge gap and a 5800X3D is pretty close to a 12900K in terms of gaming performance. And a 3600 can't keep it above 60fps when you really max it out. And don't forget that 3950X is more sensitive to RAM speeds than 5800X3D. I agree it's about weighing options but imo, Ryzen 3000 and below shouldn't be a consideration because how quickly prices come down on CPUs.

You seem pretty smitten with the 5800X3D, it's all about the price/performance, what if his usage scenarios extends past just gaming? The 3950X might be the better buy if he is doing a lot of transcoding/encoding/modelling/art stuff that can use every core you can throw at it.

My point is, there are CPU's that might be a better fit for someones current financial predicament, long-term plans or usage scenarios that makes the 5800X3D an absolute terrible buy, keep your options open.

"That benchmark also didn't differentiate between single/dual ranked DRAM which can have a pretty tangible effect on Ryzen, sometimes more than the frequency."

Dual vs Single shouldn't have much affect because the point of Vcache is not go onto Ram.

"A platform change will give him component longevity for the next generation of parts.
Where-as any CPU he gets now, will probably not carry forwards... And won't have better options later.
Doesn't make sense to replace the board with another board that still limits him to the same class/generation of hardware."

You are also not looking at the cost factor and the early adopter tax. AM5 and DDR5 are both new platforms which means they have a high price if you want them and the result is only 10-15% increase in CPU performance if you go with Zen 4. Where as if he spends $320 and gets 5800X3D + X570, he can wait till AMD has a CPU that's 60-70% faster than his current CPU. The benefit by that point is AM5 motherboards will be cheap and DDR5 will also be cheap and he gets a huge boost in CPU performance instead of paying the early adopter tax while enjoying a significantly faster gaming performance by going with a 4080 instead of 4070.

"Gaming performance is where the 5800X3D takes a front and center role, with a few instances of 50% performance lead, but most games are closer."

They are closer but the gap is still huge. The only one that's close is GTA V and I am sure that one is running into a GPU limitation or Engine limitation. But all of these are old games and not counting the new Ray Tracing performance hit that a 3950X will get killed at because while Zen 2 was good for it's time, isn't aging very well in gaming.

3950x vs 5800X3D from your link:

Civilization VI: 127 vs 188
Final Fantasy 14: 190 vs 338
World of Tanks: 664 vs 724
Borderlands 3: 147 vs 242
Gears Tactics: 262 vs 419
Grand Theft Auto V: 165 vs 186
Red Dead 2: 144 vs 234
Strange Brigade DX12: 414 vs 595

And sure, a 3950x might be cheap but now he has to spend money on higher tier Ram where as with 5800X3D, he doesn't.

"You seem pretty smitten with the 5800X3D, it's all about the price/performance, what if his usage scenarios extends past just gaming? The 3950X might be the better buy if he is doing a lot of transcoding/encoding/modelling/art stuff that can use every core you can throw at it.

My point is, there are CPU's that might be a better fit for someones current financial predicament, long-term plans or usage scenarios that makes the 5800X3D an absolute terrible buy, keep your options open."

Sure there are areas where a 3950x is better at but a lot of Transcoding/encoding/modelling/art stuff can all be done by the 4080 thanks to CUDA acceleration which is in majority of the programs these days and can be done much faster than a 3950x. GN did plenty of videos about this where you don't need a high core count CPU for a lot of tasks as long as you have a good GPU. I am not denying the fact that there are certain areas that a higher core count CPU will be better in but so far, he hasn't indicated anything that would suggest he needs high core count CPU over a strong gaming CPU to power the 4080. Cause a 3950X will absolutely hold the 4080 back compared to a 5800X3D.