A reactionary post, I guess.

[JWeinCom]

DonFerrari said:

JWeinCom said:

I have asked several people what they want to do that they can't do, and have yet to receive any kind of intelligible response. Over the fast few months I've been to school, restaurants, gyms, movies, bars, concerts, trains, etc. The last couple of years have been tough, and people are just frustrated in general, and essentially throwing tantrums.

DonFerrari said:

The problem is letting the government take over your freedom. I use the mask and took the vaccine and think whoever doesn't use the mask is inconsiderate and who don't take the vaccine is dumb, but still I don't want the government using its power to obligate or anyone else of this type of thing.

The government's job is sometimes to govern your behavior. 

We have had clothes mandates for literally centuries. I can't walk around with my dick out and that's (probably) less likely to infect anyone with a virus. When I went to school I had to get vaccinated. I had to prove my vaccination status to work as a lifeguard (for a children's camp), a teacher, and for college. The US government at least can legally force you to go to war and kill people. It is bizarre that people act like this is somehow a bridge too far.

The purpose of government is to organize responses to problems that can not be solved individually. We cannot effectively respond to a security threat if everyone gets to decide what they'll do about it and how. Like, I am morally opposed to the draft and that's obviously one of the biggest violations of freedom imaginable, but if there was a real threat to the United States could we fight it off if everyone got to decide whether or not they would fight, and what specific actions they would take if they fought? 

Currently, Covid has proved deadlier than any war in American history. We can't fight it effectively if every single person gets to choose how they want to respond. It's impossible. This is precisely the type of situation that government is made for.

If the government can never tell an individual what to do... what's the point?

If you like the government extending its power and diminishing yours, well I don't.

Comparing people walking naked (which isn't a natural behaviour for humans for like dozen milleniums) to something new that is being forced uppon (and certainly masks can be more troubling to use than cloth, several people have hardness to breath with masks. Myself I can even do gym and cardio with mask). Also not every country or school demands that you present your vaccination status (in Brazil from what I know it is just some public schools). Obligating people to go to war certainly isn't something good but the premisse is to defend your own country from being destroyed and your deared ones killed, and sure government abuse on that, but does that make it somewhat better to abuse in other fields as well?

You can take your vaccine and use the mask, and that protects yourself, other people have the right to well expose themselves to higher risk and die out of their dumbness. In USA you can even refuse medical threatment based on your faith believes.

It isn't about the government never telling what individuals can do. But do you want to go from the extreme of lack of any government to a dictatorship that tell everything the people can do? Because your last phrase make it seem like if you don't accept government demanding mask and vaccination status they can't ask anything not even "don't go out in the street shooting others".

Why does it matter that we've been wearing clothes for a while? There still should be a rational basis for the law, right? If I want to free willy, why should the government be able to tell me not to? If we can't mandate masks during a pandemic, what is the justification for other clothing? Is seeing penises, vaginas, and breasts really more dangerous to society than Covid? 

Drafts don't necessarily make another form of restriction more justified, but at the same time it questions why when we've put up with so many more extreme restrictions, we should suddenly be enraged by this one. It would suggest that government overreach isn't exactly the point.

Whether you vaccinate or wear a mask has an impact on other people. Vaccines are not 100% effective, and not everybody can vaccinate. Just like we send people to wars to defend our citizens, we implement mask mandates to do the same. It is in our collective best interest to contain the virus, and that can't be done if the government has no authority. 

This isn't about the government telling everything people can do. It's them telling them to do one thing, cover their face. It is a very mild restriction in the face of something that has killed millions. So, yeah. If you argue that's not a legitimate use of government power, then I really do question what authority the government actually has.

Let's assume that mandating masks in public areas during a pandemic is too extreme. In that case, what can the government legitimately do? Can they enforce speed limits? Make me wear pants? Take 30%ish of my salary? Tell me how many deer I can shoot? Tell me what kind of weapons I can or can't use? Control what price I could sell certain crops for? Fine me for littering? Force me to recylce? These are all things that most people agree the government can do that I see as more restrictive and that would cause less harm if they were not enforced. So, if mask wearing is too extreme, how can those actions be justified?