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EricHiggin said:

Captain_Yuri said:

So after a day of watching reviews and such, I think my overall feelings with Alder Lake is this.

At the top end, it's kinda meh. When AMD was able to beat Intel in workstation and gaming with their 5000 series, it felt like a David vs Goliath situation. It was impressive because AMD who went nearly bankrupt was able to not only beat Intel's current line up (10th gen) but next gen line up (11th gen). That to me was quite the "wow" factor. Intel reclaiming it's throne with Alder Lake, especially with such a low margin feels a lot more meh because they have all this tech and even then, it's only 12%sh faster in average and not in every task. If it was more like 20% on average, I'd be much more impressed but it feels like a pretty meh rendition.

At the budget end, it's epic. The fact that an i5 12600k is able to compete against 5800X in production workloads while being faster than a 5950x in gaming is nuts. And if the leaks of the much cheaper 12400 is true, than that would be insane value.

Overall, it will be interesting to see what Zen 3D does. Hopefully it's not just at the top end but rather, AMD can finally give something to the budget users as well. For now, Alder Lake S is the go to platform thanks to its new technologies and such. If Intel can keep Alder Lake S priced right, least in the budget segment, AMD may not continue to have an answer.

If AMD were to have Zen 3D from the 5600X and up, or even just the 5800X and up, I don't see any prices changing much. I'd assume they'll use the 2017/2018 Intel, as well as GPU market excuse of, 'we have the halo performance parts and therefore the crown so you can pay more for the entire line up, regardless of mid and low tier performance, period'.

Even if AMD only has the 5900X and 5950X as Zen 3D, I don't personally see them lowering the mid tier prices much. Either that or they'll drop mid tier prices so they're borderline acceptable, then they'll add another $100 to the those 3D parts assuming they take the crown back overall. Just offset the mid tier losses by increasing top tier pricing. Intel got away with murder when it came to insane top tier pricing, so little reason why AMD can't either.

I think they will drop the 5600x/5800x by a good amount tbh. If they have a 5600X/5800X with V-cache, they should still drop the regular 5600x/5800x by a pretty good margin. Micro-Center and some other retailers are already giving pretty deep discounts for 5800X. You can get a 5800X for only $300 for example which is the price of a 5600X:

https://www.microcenter.com/product/630284/amd-ryzen-7-5800x-vermeer-38ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included

I don't think AMD can go Intels route of not dropping prices even if their Halo products end up being faster. The only reason the 5600X/5800X didn't get a price drop until now is because the 5600X was still faster than a 11600K and same for 5800X vs i7. But now that an i5 12600K can beat AMD's entire lineup, we are already seeing those much needed discounts come in. And if Vcache doesn't come down to mid tier CPUs, then the 5600X/5800X will still get discounted because otherwise, there is little to no reason to get either of them over an i5 12600K/12600/12400 let alone the i7. Intel gives you a better platform and better performance.