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SvennoJ said:
ZyroXZ2 said:

Erhm, this is a two-edged sword you're describing.  The challenge IS often learning: learning the weak direction of Souls bosses, learning the attack patterns and range of a monster in Monster Hunter.  Once learned, then it becomes a rinse and repeat.  The feel good is gone once the human has learned the AI's patterns.  Keep in mind, I literally mention I don't want my enemy AI to be inhuman (and show an example of a button read in MK11 even though I still won the battle) as I'm keenly aware a CPU can respond faster than a human.  Humans have an average of 10-20ms response times, but thanks to modern computing, AI can respond in as little as 2-3ms (or shorter depending on the instruction set).

Thus, I'm not asking for an unbeatable AI, I'm asking for an AI that provides the very challenge that makes Souls and MH games so alluring: the learning process to defeat what was at first a tough fight.  If AI becomes adaptable with greater/deeper routines on subsequent play cycles in Souls, then it actually reinvigorates what you're saying: each playthrough is a much more "thrilling and new" experience because suddenly that boss is using moves you never saw the first playthrough that you took 10 times learning, or it's stringing together attacks with new patterns that require completely different responses.  Hell, imagine if they took the time to completely change the weapon for the next cycle, so all of a sudden the same boss went from slashing sword attacks to Stabby McStabberson with a spear!  I genuinely think AI is a weakness in our current pursuit of graphical prowess, and it needs improvement or the uncanny valley strikes beyond just appearances.

All you're describing is not AI learning, you're asking for the same polished fights yet changed up for higher difficulty, Basically that's what DS2 is, and then DS3. Same stuff basically, different attack patterns and weapons (and a new lick of paint of course) It's all still set patterns, the enemy you're fighting isn't learning. You're just learning its patterns and tells.

Can an AI basically make a new souls game. Probably. You can have AI generate attack patterns, probably even fine tune them after analyzing real player behavior. Then you can have the game analyze you as you play and change up attack patterns to those that best fit your style. Would people be happy with that? It seems that beating a difficult game only has meaning when everyone plays through the same thing. That's where this unwavering stance of don't touch the difficulty comes from with souls games. Plus what would content creators do? :p Guides on how to beat bosses would become meaningless!

One of the earlier examples of 'AI' adapting difficulty/behavior in games is rubber banding in racing games. First priority is to give the player a close race, stay with him, bump back, then back off near the finish in you're ahead of the 'set' time. It was painfully obvious in DriveClub. All the opponents had a target time to finish, but would stay near you during the race, being more aggressive if you did better early and being more lenient if you struggle first. GT Sport the same, go fast early, AI gives chase, go slow early, AI holds up. And everyone hates those systems. In Gt Sport it's like herding cats. Pass one, they suddenly wake up and give chase, even passing the car that was in front of you that they were dozing behind until you show up from the rear.



Whooooaaa there, I'm addressing Souls in particular and how previous posts are mentioning the complexity and cost, or in particular, the poster that's mentioning how it can be done without using AI learning.  I, myself in the video, am clearly talking about AI adaptability in which it DOES have to learn to some extent, but here on the forum I'm also addressing the current state of games like Souls and Monster Hunter and how simple changes can be highly effective since both rely heavily on cycles (read: grinding).  Once again, not looking for "human" AI, but am also discussing how simply tiered skill difficulty AI routines can be applied to currently considering "difficult" games, ergo Souls. Once again, amiibo CPU fighters are a surprisingly good example of how it can be applied without AI machine learning until said AI machine learning becomes more accessible/widespread/widely adopted.

You are right that "game guides" on how to beat bosses would become meaningless, but that's a GOOD thing.  Granted, on easier modes, the vast majority of players don't need guides.  For people looking for a challenge, the idea that they would then also look up how to beat the boss seems counterintuitive: the skilled players are NOT looking at game guides for how to beat bosses lol... I think they would welcome the change-up!

Rubberbanding, however, is not adaptability.  That is, in and of itself, simply metadata adjustments (seriously, making a car go faster, or slower, or selecting its place in the pack, that's all just conditional changes similar to the previous poster mentioning ammo/resource adjustments based on player performance).  This is why I kind of chuckle at Xbox still being the overall most hated of the three as they have done backend things that most "gamers" would completely fail to appreciate, and one of those is Drivatars.  Sure, there are still programmed confines to Drivatars, but I can tell you that it's implemented better than people imagine it is, and it uses simple AI learning processes where a human player is present to learn data from and apply to their digital offline AI racer.  Otherwise, they kind of randomize the behaviors where no data is present.  Is there still a target difficulty that the AI drivers try to achieve based on the selected difficulty by the player like what you described? Yes, I've tested it.  But it's still a step forward in the right direction when cars will brake early or brake check me, or side swipe me or pit me at all what is seemingly completely random and is what keeps even a simple offline race potentially "dynamically difficult".  When the AI behaves out of expectation, it's what challenges the human lmfao



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