Sony's U-turn - Should first party games be cross-gen?

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Runa216 said:

The_Liquid_Laser said:

I'm sorry, but your post was bullshit.  First the PS4 is not the second best selling console of all time.  That would be the DS.

More importantly, Sony loses half of the time.  They do not get to rest on their laurels and make a bunch of bad decisions and then succeed.  That is not how it works.  Do you know what happens when Sony releases a system with only multiplatform games?  PS Vita.  That is what happens.

PS5 is not guaranteed to sell over 100m units.  Right now it is mostly selling to people who will buy a box that has PS5 written on it.  There are actually not very  many people like this in the world as these people only buy for the first year or so.  The vast majority of "Playstation" fans are actually fans of the games.  They are really God of War fans or Spider-Man fans or whatever.  They are fans of specific games.  They don't have much reason to buy a PS5 if they can already play it on PS4.

Software sells hardware.  That is why PS5 is not guaranteed to become a "best selling" anything.  It needs exclusive software, or at least software that is exclusive to Gen 9.  If they want to release hardware that doesn't have special games of it's own, then they should expect another flop like the Vita.  There are good games on the Vita, but you can play them on other platforms.  This is the kind of strategy that Sony is using for the PS5 right now.

DS ain't a console, DS is a handheld. Switch is BOTH a console and a handheld. No console is guaranteed 100 million units but considering the PS3 is the only sony console to not to so and that was heavily impacted by their atrocious first half and STILL came within 13 million of that mark, I'd be willing to bet my gaming future on PS5 hitting 100 million easily. Plenty of people actually really like what PS5 is doing, and having it be backwards compatible means that it opens the world for more fans that didn't get a PS4. PS has always had such a diverse lineup of first and second and third party exclusives that it's hard to quantify what brings people to Sony's consoles, so pinning any bulk of their audience to one or two games is pretty silly all things considered. 

While I do agree that software sells hardware, hardware also sells hardware and loyalty is absolutely a factor here. I bought a Ps5 not because of its stellar launch lineup (which I actually do think was pretty damn fantastic but not enough on its own), but as an investment in the future. PS1 pried me away from a strict Nintendo grasp, Ps2 was the best console ever and remains the best selling of all time, PS3 hurt for a while but ended up being another fantastic console, and the PS4 is probably the best overall console I've ever played. that or the Switch. Sony flubs from time to time, that's absolutely certain (some of them are astronomically bad), but buying a console is always an investment. An investment that is inspired by prior history and momentum. I bought a PS5 console because I know, based on the last 25 years of Sony's history, that there will be games. there are games and there will be more. We will see a good balance of exclusives, multiplatform titles, indies, AAA blockbusters, western and eastern and worldwide influences, etc. I love Nintendo, but I mostly love them for Mario and Zelda and Smash. With Sony...I love them for pretty much everything else and it seems the worldwide audience is with me here.

That's why the PS1 was the first console to break 100 million units sold. that's why the PS2 remains the top selling home console of all time. That's why as of right now, 4 of the top 5 highest selling home consoles are Playstation consoles (PS2 - 157 million, PS4 - 113 million, PS1 - 102 million, Wii - 101 Million, PS3 - 87 million). We know for a fact that the Nintendo Switch will probably be #2 for sure and maybe even #1 by the end of its run, but in that same run we can absolutely expect the PS5 to enter that top 5 as well. They traditionally don't do any one thing outstandingly well, but do so many things well enough that they regularly have the widest, worldwide audience. And their stance on exclusives is another in a long line of good decisions made by the company. The Digital age has allowed them (And Microsoft, let's be fair and honest) to blur the lines of console generations by making the transition easier than ever. 

Short term they don't NEED the sales, as they can't keep up with demand as it is. Long term, they know that ensuring their consoles remain supported long into their subsequent generations breeds brand loyalty. PS1 was supported long into Ps2's life cycle, PS2 was supported until I think 2013 when the Ps4 launched, and we're onto the Ps5 now and they're just now thinking about shutting down the PS3's storefront. 

The point is, like I said at first, is that sony has been pretty smart about balancing the many factors involved. They are giving us pure exclusives but mostly keeping them to niche titles or smaller, mid-range games. their big sellers are cross-generational and cross-buy to ensure that people who like what they have to offer aren't missing out. People who loved PS4 for Spider-Man and God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn can still play the next games on that console if they can't manage to get the sold-out stock. Many people can't get a PS5, this way those people don't miss out while there's still a distinct difference between the generations. IT's a win-win, really. 

I just...I don't even know what to say to you, man. You're allowed to have opinions but they don't seem to be rooted in the real world here. Like, you're so off-base about so many facts and ideas and claims and predictions and I don't think your arguments are as helpful to your stance as you think they are. 

One mistake you are making is that you aren't counting Sony's handhelds as Playstation devices.  The Playstation brand is actually not worth a whole lot.  The PS Vita proved just how much Playstation is worth as a brand: not much.  The games?  Those are the brands that matter.  It's God of War, Spider-Man, Uncharted, ect... that have real value and not the word "Playstation".  You may have bought a PS5 purely for the Playstation brand, but you are definitely in the minority.  Here is how well the PS5 can do on brand alone by region:

Japan: PS5 is not going to sell well here.  They like handhelds in Japan and third party games are now going more toward Switch and less toward Playstation.  
RoW: A fair amount of this category is other nations along the Pacific that have similar tastes to Japan.  Expect an outcome similar to Japan's here where Playstation loses ground to Switch.
North America: Video game brands don't mean a damn thing in North America.  PS2 was super popular in North America.  The next gen most of us flocked over to the XBox360.  Well, it just so happens that Microsoft just bought a bunch of game studios, and they are about to go all out on their E3 presentation.  Hell, Microsoft even goes all out when they have no exclusive games to show.  Just imagine what they'll do when they actually have exclusive games.  Meanwhile, Sony won't even be at E3 and we are instead talking about why you don't need to buy a PS5 because of cross-gen games.  North America is the market Sony should be worrying about.  They can lose a lot of ground in North America because of their cross-gen games.
Europe: They are likely to still do well in Europe.

PS5 is not going to get to 100m systems on Europe alone.  PS3 was the top home system in Europe, and they lost a boatload of money on the PS3.  PS5 is potentially in a worse position than PS3, because they are going to be down in Japan compared to PS3.  Microsoft is going to try their hardest to get a repeat of XBox360's success in North America.  That is what basically will determine how well PS5 does.  If Sony rests on their laurels, then they are going to lose North America again.

PS5 is only guaranteed two things: jack and squat.  They can't make a bunch of mistakes and then expect to sell over 100m systems.  Making their first party games cross-gen is a huge bone-headed mistake.  The purpose of first party titles is to sell new hardware.  It isn't to maximize software revenue.  It isn't even to make your customers happy about buying your system later.  The only smart way to make first party titles is with the intention of selling hardware.  For a console owner that is where the real money is, because the real money is in licensing fees.  More hardware -> more licensing fees.  Whenever a console maker doesn't try to sell hardware with their first party software, they are making a huge mistake.