What is your opinion on gaming subscription services?

[Cerebralbore101]

Ryuu96 said:

Cerebralbore101 said:

1. Even if we were to incorrectly assume that they only meant within their own ecosystem they would still have a deeply flawed dataset. Their ecosystem includes PC. Microsoft does not have a way to track all sales of games on Steam, GoG, EGS, or any of other multitude of stores on PC. Microsoft can only track purchases made through the Windows Store, or purchases of games they themselves have developed. Example: If I buy Halo MCC on PC via steam, MS knows I spent that money, because it's their game. If I buy a 3rd party game through the windows store MS once again knows I spent that money, because it's their store. But if I buy a non-MS game on Steam, GoG, EGS, or any other PC storefront MS has no way of knowing I bought that game. 

2.  Xbox Exec Sarah Bond said, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres and, crucially, spend about 20% more on gaming overall." Overall means to take everything into account. 

Of course someone could argue that she meant overall as in all types purchases made in Xbox's storefront (including MTX, XBL Subscriptions, and DLC packs). Had she simply said overall, or overall revenue and not gaming overall then that interpretation would make sense. But of course that isn't what gaming overall means. If I were to ask you how much money was spent in 2020 on gaming overall you wouldn't come back to me with only money spent on Xbox games. You would come back to me with information on how much money was spent on gaming including Mobile, Switch, PC, Xbox, Sony, and browser games at the very least. 

It's obvious here that when she said "gaming overall" she meant the entirety of gaming. Either that or she doesn't know the meaning of the words that she is using. And if she didn't mean "gaming overall", but instead meant "Xbox ecosystem revenue overall" then that's on her for failing to properly communicate. 

There's another option, you're seeing what you want to see, this is the first time I've ever seen this line of questioning, Lol.

Overall doesn't have to mean the entire industry when we're talking in the context of a specific ecosystem.

The bolded does make sense even in the "gaming overall" context, because they're talking about their own ecosystem. If you asked me it wouldn't be the same context because I don't work for any corporation, so of course I would give a comment on the overall industry, if you ask a company, why the hell are they going to mention numbers for Sony/Nintendo which they don't know? They're going to talk about their own ecosystem because that is what matters most to them.

Context matters, if folk can't understand context then that is on them. For something so obvious it is the first time I've seen someone suggest this and most fans assumed they were talking about their own ecosystem...Where are the folk suggesting that she meant the overall industry apart from you?

Ryuu96 said:

Cerebralbore101 said:

If Sony owned Windows, then yes we would define Sony's gaming ecosystem as all Playstation consoles + the whole PC platform. Especially if the vast majority of Sony titles were available for purchase on PC. 

...Why would you define Sony's gaming ecosystem as the entire PC platform simply for owning Windows? They'd also have to own Epic Store, Windows Store and Steam...

Windows =/= Gaming Ecosystem.

Xbox's Gaming Ecosystem is Xbox Store and Windows Store. Steam is an extension but not their ecosystem, it's Valves.

They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem. 

Ryuu96 said:

Dear lord you're still ignoring context...

I never said Xbox execs can only mean Xbox when saying Overall Gaming but when talking about what Game Pass members spend in comparison to non-subscribers it is so damn obvious they're talking about their own ecosystem...

Context!!!

I'll say again, for something so obvious, this is the first time I've seen this debate, you're also the only person here debating that they meant the entire industry, nobody else is suggesting that they meant that, Angelus didn't suggest that they meant that when he posted it, you're reading what you want to read.

If you asked me it wouldn't be the same context because I don't work for any corporation, so of course I would give a comment on the overall industry, if you ask a company, why the hell are they going to mention numbers for Sony/Nintendo which they don't know? They're going to talk about their own ecosystem because that is what matters most to them.

That same logic would lead us to think that if you asked Phil Spencer how many consoles have sold worldwide for 8th gen, he'd respond with only Xbox numbers. After all, he would only talk about his own ecosystem because that's what matters to him. But in the article I linked to he's including more than just Xbox consoles. 

The PC Gaming Ecosystem is made up of multiple ecosystems, like Windows Store, Steam, Epic Games Store, etc.

In that post he even mentions specifically and separately the "Windows Gaming Ecosystem" in relation to the Windows Store.

From the article...

"We want creators to be inspired to bring their best content to Windows 10, and we want Windows 10 to be the place where gamers come to discover their next favorite PC game. We recognize that Win32 is the app format that game developers love to use and gamers love to play, so we are excited to share that we will be enabling full support for native Win32 games to the Microsoft Store on Windows. This will unlock more options for developers and gamers alike, allowing for the customization and control they’ve come to expect from the open Windows gaming ecosystem."

He's not saying that the Windows Store is it's own ecosystem. If anything he's admitting that Windows as a whole is a gaming ecosystem. 

1. Windows is a gaming ecosystem. 

2. Microsoft owns windows. 

3. Therefore Microsoft owns a gaming ecosystem. 

4. If Windows is a gaming ecosystem that Microsoft owns, then Windows is included in Microsoft's overall gaming ecosystem. Whether or not they have absolute and total control over that ecosystem is beside the point. It still belongs to them. 

So when you say "They're only talking about their own ecosystem" you are essentially saying "They are only talking about Windows + Xbox". 

But they don't have a way to track all spending across Windows. So, even if we incorrectly assume that they mean only their own ecosystem their claim that Gamepass users spend more money than non-gamepass users is relying on a deeply flawed dataset. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 02 May 2021