SvennoJ said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
It's not that simple. Most countries have just an amount that is a small help, which is not enough to pay for your mortgage, groceries, medical bills, utilities and gasoline. It is just a very small amount to maybe help you not to starve. Also usually it is paid only for unemployed people, people that can't work etc. Because if those countries wanted to pay a bigger amount, maybe let's say 1000-1500 dollars to everyone that can't work the burden would be absurd in the public budget, even for a country like US. Unless you just print money like crazy to support it which would bring other problems to the economy. Small programs can definitely happen and work well, like it exists in Brazil and help poor people a lot, although is a very small amount only for people not to starve. Bigger programs with larger monthly payments is most likely doomed to not work and destroy a country's economy unless you have some very specific exceptions like Norway where they sovereign oil fund can probably support the population for centuries. But if US wants to try it, go for it, it's always good to have someone serving as an example. Also remember that one of the reasons US is so rich is because of it's power which is also supported by that absurd military spend. Of course it can be lower than that but rest assured US would be a totally different country without this spending. |
I was born and grew up in the Netherlands. They still seem to be doing pretty well despite high minimum wage, unemployment benefits and social assistance. Some things have changed though. When I went to university it was still fully paid for by the government, just a small sum to sign up and buy your own books, yet you also got paid to go to school. I wasn't living in luxury, but had no trouble staying debt free. Much nicer to start life without a huge debt to pay off.
I only know of two people from my life in the Netherlands that said screw it, I'm just going to live off welfare. One a single mother, another an alcoholic with bigger problems. People rather work and get ahead once the requirements to stay alive have been full filled.
Of course everyone that works pays for social assistance for those that don't. That's how a welfare state works. And that point is what rubs most people the wrong way. Why should I pay for those that don't work. Well if you enjoy your work you wouldn't have such a big problem with that. And if you don't enjoy your work, you can quit it to find something you do enjoy without running into problems. Not being dependent on your shitty job is a huge advantage of a working social welfare system. Work places now have to provide better working conditions or people don't want to work for them. And happier workers are much more productive than those that simply go through the motions for the next pay cheque. Everybody wins. |
Oh I am not against the welfare state at all, I have no interest in living in a country that doesnt have a safety net despite some of it's problems like poor medical support from the GP's and waiting times for exams (God I hate the NHS, why do british people worship it?). Also people forget that there is a theme that is prohibited to be discussed by society, especially the left. There are some people that are just helpless and won't be able to help the society at all. People with very low IQ, with serious mental disorders (which usually leads to drug addiction), people with serious illnesses etc. We can't just let these people rot in the street. In the past the family would take care of the person but today the burden is on the society. And it is better to have theses people with a roof under their heads and food in their belies than roaming in the street and causing other problems.
But universal basic income is different, at least what has been proposed. Provide a help for people that are unemployed or do not want to work with a few hundred bucks is one thing, providing $1500 or a full minimum wage for everybody is different and throws a big burden in society. Eventually it will (my opinion) serve as an incentive for people not to work, increase exponentially the government spending which will then have to be covered by huge amounts of debt of money printing or tax increases.
Unfortunately only a few societies can cope with that, mostly very rich societies like (a few) western european countries and north america
Also two things will never change:
1) If you let government create a tax, it will never go away and will only increase over time
2) If you let government create benefits, they will never go away and with time new benefits will be demanded, all the time.
