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Bofferbrauer2 said:

Captain_Yuri said:

I am not sure where you are getting the "visual upgrade is small" when you have plenty of people including hardware unboxed themselves saying the visual upgrade is noticeable. If you think this is a small visual upgrade:

Then idk what to tell you other than to get your eyes checked. SSAA isn't even in the same league as to the type of visual upgrade that Ray Tracing offers even back then. Even if you have something like Ray Tracing reflections on and rest of the affects off, it offers a noticeable visual upgrade. And with DLSS which you keep ignoring, lessens the performance hit by quite a bit. The idea that very few games use RT and therefore it shouldn't matter is nonsense because not only will that number increase significantly now that the consoles have it but number of the major titles that released this holiday season have some form of Ray Tracing on both Console and PC.

The reason why people are "Using Raytracing right now as main value to define how good a GPU is" is because in Raster Performance, both Nvidia and AMD gpus are within single digit % of each other in majority of the games in which they trade blows. And when they are that close but then you have AMD gpus having a worse Ray Tracing implementation that even the 2000 series, it 110% matters a lot. Because when you are spending money on a GPU where the Raster performance is so close but AMD has potato RT performance, it would make sense for a lot of people to go with Nvidia and be on the cutting edge of technology. The Intel comparison that you made is nonsense.

PC is about options. If you want to not have options, play on a console... Consumers should be able to choose on which games they want to prioritize frame rate like Call of Duty or which games they want to prioritize Visuals like Minecraft RTX. It shouldn't be up to the reviewer to decide for them. Ray Tracing is a feature that is available now on a growing number of titles. It's an Option. And when people are spending $600+ on a GPU, they should have the Option to experience cutting edge visuals even if there's a performance hit.

I didn't say it's small, I said it's too small compared to the performance hit. That doesn't make the visual gains small, it just means it totally tanks your framerate when doing so.

Since you came with Minecraft RTX, let's have a look at it, shall we?

With a 2080 Super without RTX enabled you can load 96 chunks at 180 fps on average. Turn on RTX and you're down to only 8 chunks and 43 fps. Even with DLSS, which raises the fps to 71 with 8 chunks, we're still way lower and with a much much shorter draw distance. A 3080 does certainly a bit better, but will still be lightyears behind the framerates and draw distances achieved without raytracing. And I simply can't agree that the visual upgrade is worth losing over 80% of performance with DLSS turned on with RTX (otherwise it would be over 90% performance hit). And Minecraft is the only game so far where I consideer the raytracing really meaningful (maybe control also, but haven't checked that one yet tbf).

I do agree it looks beautiful. But just check the beginning of your DF video when he shows off the house, and look at the tree behind it: It's already partly in the mist from the short draw distance. It seriously reminded me to the N64 version of Turok in that regard. I simply can't agree that Raytracing is worth this massive tradeoff. Hence why I compared it to 8x SSAA, which also wasn't worth the tradeoff despite looking really good at the time.

I mean, yes you are sacrificing draw distance and frame rate in Minecraft but the game in it's entirety looks completely different. It's looks like a generational leap in visuals if I have ever seen one while still being above 60fps if you have a GPU powerful enough.

But the key here isn't whether or not you or I agree with the visual advantages vs performance hit as everyone would have a different opinion. The key here is whether or not all the information is being presented to the consumer from the reviewer which Hardware Unboxed was not doing. Raster is no longer the only metric to measure in every game nor is it the only deciding factor for purchasing a GPU when the Raster performance is so close.