PS5 Showcase - Wednesday Sept 16

[DonFerrari]

Bandorr said:

DonFerrari said:

They were cagey? I guess you have been following MS for so long that you are missing things. MS leadership have been desperate for the spotlight that they have interviews, news and tweets almost everyday regarding Series X and Series S. Sony in comparison have basically had their 2 events for PS5 and one for PS4 and PSVR in the past several months. And the blog with the post with the information.

I don`t remember any thread that discussed HFW being crossgen or not. And you being savaged by people (link please) doesn`t mean Sony said anything of the sort, just that those people assumed it. Funny enough is that you are claiming Sony done something but you were locking HFW as crossgen, how would you do that if Sony had given any certainty that it no game would be crossgen?

MS said all exclusives would be crossgen for the next 2 years, at least one game isn`t, so he wasn`t true on exact quote. You are trying to equate two things that are nothing alike. And you still weren`t able to point out where precisely have Sony said what you think they said. The quote you posted was exact on they believe in generations and that they want a fast transition, how would that in any universe mean "all games launched after November by Sony will be PS5 exclusive"?

Don`t try to weasel yourself out of it. You made the claim and accusation but didn`t meet the burden of proof. Either retract that you were wrong or provide evidence. Saying "well I accused him of lying, but I didn`t mean it" doesn`t really stick.

Even that I would like a direct quote, because what was brought didn't even got close to that.

I thought the Matt booty/Phil spencer quote was that all first party will be next-gen.  Isn't that true so far? We have seen one game so far - Halo. Which is Cross gen.

We know nothing about Hellblade, Forza, State of Decay, Everwild etc.

If they were talking only first party and not bought exclusives then yes that would mean Halo and it seems Gears Tactics. And that would make their patting on their own back very laughable wouldn`t it? "We don`t want to force people to move on" and other sayings, when well they really didn`t have anything to launch anyway for the first year of the console (a thing we had xbox fans mocking Sony for PS3 and PS4, saying they had no games).

coolbeans said:

DonFerrari said:

They were cagey? I guess you have been following MS for so long that you are missing things. MS leadership have been desperate for the spotlight that they have interviews, news and tweets almost everyday regarding Series X and Series S. Sony in comparison have basically had their 2 events for PS5 and one for PS4 and PSVR in the past several months. And the blog with the post with the information.

I don`t remember any thread that discussed HFW being crossgen or not. And you being savaged by people (link please) doesn`t mean Sony said anything of the sort, just that those people assumed it. Funny enough is that you are claiming Sony done something but you were locking HFW as crossgen, how would you do that if Sony had given any certainty that it no game would be crossgen?

MS said all exclusives would be crossgen for the next 2 years, at least one game isn`t, so he wasn`t true on exact quote. You are trying to equate two things that are nothing alike. And you still weren`t able to point out where precisely have Sony said what you think they said. The quote you posted was exact on they believe in generations and that they want a fast transition, how would that in any universe mean "all games launched after November by Sony will be PS5 exclusive"?

Don`t try to weasel yourself out of it. You made the claim and accusation but didn`t meet the burden of proof. Either retract that you were wrong or provide evidence. Saying "well I accused him of lying, but I didn`t mean it" doesn`t really stick.

Look: can we at least NOT go down the route of bullshit mini-jabs and stick to the point?  Anyways... now you're talking past me in respect to being cagey.  The amount of interviews or attention-seeking MS is doing compared to Sony wasn't the point.  I've already laid out the deliberate framing I see and built my case around that in previous responses.

No, no.  That's not what I'm saying.  To clarify: the "I would have been..." hypothetical I bring is to gauge just how strong the assumption was for Horizon II being a PS5 exclusive.  I shouldn't have gone with "I'd" there as the " 'd " is pretty flexible.  The point: let's not pretend that strong presumption wasn't guided by strategic marketing here.

Dude... I literally shot the "muh 2 years" argument down before.  I assumed you tacitly conceded that timeline wasn't so cut-n-dry when you shifted the goalposts to discussing AAA titles on page 41.  It's almost like you're gaslighting what I said less than 24 hours ago.  I literally laid out my case for why I find Ryan's quote & presentation to be suspicious and NEVER interpreted that text as "all Sony 1st party games will be PS5 exclusive after its launch."  I'd encourage you to re-read what I'm putting across again.

Also, it's rather funny you didn't answer my innocuous question in my last comment.  I'll rephrase it so you can give a simple yes/no answer:

You find Jim Ryan's quote & actions regarding cross-gen to be honest here.  Do you believe Microsoft's "Console Launch Exclusive" branding at video events to have been deceptive marketing to any degree?

Is this just cheap retaliation for when I used that word against you?  Let me be clear: I'm sticking by everything I've said within this comment chain about Ryan's quote unless new material comes along that challenges it.  Further, I'm literally having trouble comprehending how having a nuanced take can be framed so disingenuously as you've done.  Do I have to plant my flag in the "Jim Ryan is a vile, dishonest hack" ground regarding this situation in order to make a point?  I have a feeling I'm just going to exchange pleasantries, wash my hands of this stink, and move on from this topic.

We aren`t past the point. You really can`t accuse Sony of not giving information about those games since well they had only two communications about those games. One where they showed the console for the first time and some games that would show on it, and another one now and with the second one they informed on their own blog (and had other publications asking clarifications that were given) that those 3 games were crossgen, and had to correct the wrong information about Demon`s Souls.

How is any pretending on that if you were so sure HFW was crossgen that you fought to the point of being attacked as you claimed? People make assumptions all the time. We had many assumptions regarding price for both family of consoles based on the vague "price conscious" of the consoles. But that had both people assuming PS5 for 399 and others 599 using the same phrase, for the first the reasoning was that Sony saw that PS3 and X1 being over 499 sold poorly at start the second saying that costs and inflation would justify and that if they had a higher price they would use other words. Is there any ground to say that Sony being vague about it mean they lied or misled? None.

Have I said it is 24 months cut and dry? Nope, I even used end of 2021 instead of counting 24 months (which would make that phrase be into 2022) so I have no idea what you are getting over here or what you want to discuss regarding 24 months. Is it because I said we have one console exclusive for Xbox being confirmed to not be crossgen so far? From what I know they didn`t even gave a specific month to release it, just that it seemed to be before the end of 2021.

I gave you an answer, just not the answer you wanted, because you want to make two different situations the same to claim hypocrite or whatever. Jim for me have nothing hypocritical, lying or misleading he said what was their strategy and so far it seems they are acting on it. MS saying if they meant that all the exclusives over the next couple year would be crossgen then yes they contracting a game to be next gen only while releasing on the window of that "promise" would be a lie wouldn`t it?

You haven`t been able to build a case that sustain that Sony was lying or misled, you use people assumptions to try and prove something, but you can`t accuse someone based on what other people misunderstood by their own with nothing to sustain it. But for some reason you try to use that to defend the phrasing of MS that is completely different.

Let`s even try to give you a leg to stand own and make as if Sony was directly replying to MS.

MS Said: "we don`t want to force people to move to nextgen, so all our exclusives will be crossgen"

Reporter asks Sony to reply to that specifically. Sony says" "We do believe in generations, so we will make games that uses nextgen techniques and features that aren`t available on current gen so people will have a reason to move to PS5 as soon as possible".

That have MS saying they will have all their exclusives games being crossgen so any single game would not being thus contradict. While Sony saying have nothing of the sort, if some of their games use next gen features then you can`t say they lied.

It is just as in math. Depending of your thesis you need 100% of the cases to be that to prove (so you can disprove with only a single case where it isn`t true), while other cases you only need one positive prove to sustain your thesis. Let`s use another example to show it.

Person A says: In Texas it NEVER goes over 100Fahrenheit.

Person B says: In Alaska is POSSIBLE to see over 60Fahrenheit.

In those cases if there is a single second in the whole 4.5Billion years of earth (or let`s be generous and say he ment in the last 10 years) there was over 100 Fahrenheit registered in Texas then he would be wrong. But for second case in that time frame if for that same 4.5Billion years the temperature was always lower than 60Fahrenheit but there was 1 second where it was 60 Fahrenheit or over then he wouldn`t be wrong. And that is why you can`t win your case.

And on your last phrase you were either accusing him or not. You said you stick to it, so you claim he was lying. Not sure why you want to rephrase without rephrasing or accepting you were wrong.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 19 September 2020