curl-6 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:
Here is some evidence that "most people" prefer the NES, particularly in North America. The NES/Famicom only had a major presence in Japan and North America. I wouldn't expect it to be preferred in other parts of the world. But here is evidence of the NES' popularity in North America.
1) NES literally sold more than SNES. I know you don't want to count this, but that is kind of like saying, "You have no evidence that I shot this guy" while you are holding a smoking gun. Sales numbers are very weighty evidence.
|
NES |
SNES |
% change |
| Japan |
19.4 |
17.2 |
-11% |
| North America |
34 |
24 |
-29% |
| ROW |
8.6 |
8.7 |
1% |
The NES sold more than the SNES, but the biggest difference in sales was in North America. That is where we should find the most people who prefer the NES, especially among those who are old enough to remember the NES when it was a current console.
2) Retro Gamers on Youtube. I did some searches looking for the top 30 retro gaming channels (based on subscriptions) that are in North America. Almost all of these channels cover retro gaming in general. However some of the channels clearly favor one system based on content, and in some cases the Youtuber has just come out and said what their favorite system is. Here are the results:
|
Channel |
subs (in thousands) |
slant/preferred system |
| 1 |
Cinnemassacre |
3340 |
NES |
| 2 |
LGR |
1410 |
PC |
| 3 |
The 8-bit guy |
1180 |
none |
| 4 |
Summoning Salt |
810 |
NES |
| 5 |
Metal Jesus Rocks |
785 |
none |
| 6 |
Gaming Historian |
777 |
none |
| 7 |
Classic Game Room (80s comics) |
437 |
Genesis |
| 8 |
Nostalgia Nerd |
357 |
PC |
| 9 |
Nintendrew |
314 |
N64 |
| 10 |
Happy Console Gamer |
253 |
Genesis |
| 11 |
Game Sack |
250 |
none |
| 12 |
Pat the NES Punk |
234 |
NES |
| 13 |
Continue? |
209 |
none |
| 14 |
SNESdrunk |
182 |
SNES |
| 15 |
My Life In Gaming |
178 |
none |
| 16 |
Nintendo Complete |
141 |
NES |
| 17 |
Retro Game Mechanics Explained |
138 |
SNES |
| 18 |
Classic Gaming Quarterly |
131 |
none |
| 19 |
Kelsey Lewin |
124 |
Gameboy |
| 20 |
Adam Koralik |
111 |
Dreamcast |
| 21 |
Nintendo Collecting |
108 |
N64 |
| 22 |
darbian |
101 |
none |
| 23 |
John Hancock |
94 |
Genesis |
| 24 |
John Riggs |
86 |
NES |
| 25 |
nenriki86 |
83 |
NES |
| 26 |
Retrorepairs |
75 |
none |
| 27 |
RinryGameGame |
75 |
none |
| 28 |
Retroware |
54 |
none |
| 29 |
Gaming History Source |
54 |
none |
| 30 |
NES Complex |
50 |
NES |
Here is the data for just NES and SNES channels
|
Channels |
Subs (in thousands) |
| NES |
7 |
4744 |
| SNES |
2 |
320 |
Just based on retro content on Youtube, the NES is far more popular than the SNES, at least among North American gamers. You might also argue that the SNES had tougher competition in North America. However if you add the SNES and Genesis together, then that brings the # of channels up to 5 and the NES is still far ahead on total subscriptions. The NES' popularity vs the SNES is not simply because some prefer the Genesis. People authentically love the 8-bit era completely on its own.
3) Merchandise
Here is a popular site that sells retro gaming T-shirts.
https://pixelretro.com/pages/pixelretro-quality
Under their NES category they have 90 different shirts available. Under their SNES category they have 40 shirts available.
Here is another site that sells retro gaming themed art.
https://artovision3d.com/
The art can be bought as shadowboxes that hang on the wall or it can be desktop art. I sorted these by "best selling" and then counted how many were NES themed and how many were SNES themed.
|
Shadowbox art |
Desktop art |
| NES |
17 |
15 |
| SNES |
9 |
10 |
In both cases art from NES games appears more often than art from SNES games in the "best selling" category. What people actually buy more often is the NES themed art.
Ultimately, what I wanted to show is how extremely popular the NES is in North America. People on the internet like to crap all over the NES. Meanwhile, I know plenty of people in real life who love it. Part of the disconnect is that most parts of the world did not experience the NES in its prime. Those who didn't dismiss the NES quickly, while those who did have a deep appreciation for it. When I'm saying people love the NES, I'm not just making this up. There is a reason why the NES sold more than the SNES. It was and still is a very popular system for North American gamers.
|
Again, sales aren't an apples to apples comparison because they sold under very different circumstances.
The preferences of youtubers and merchandise don't prove anything either, that's just the rose-tinted nostalgia of a specific demographic. If you grew up gaming the the 80s, NES was virtually the only game in town, there was little alternative due to the lack of competition in the console space.
I think our fundamental disconnect is that you're talking about which was more popular in its time, whereas I'm talking now, today, in the 21st century, in retrospect. Take a bunch of gamers who grew up with neither and let them play both today; I doubt most would choose the NES.
|
That is probabaly true, especially outside of North America and Japan. SNES games are more like modern games. SNES games are easier and longer than NES games (as a whole) which makes them more like the games made today. SNES games are 2D, so they feel a step or two away from modern games, but NES games are like an extra step and that can feel too far removed from modern games. Also the NES doesn't use any developer tricks (things that subtly make a game easier), and this is great on an old TV, but it can make the NES feel off on an HDTV which generally has lag in it. NES is more reflex based than any system that came later.
However, a lot of people (probably most people) who played both the NES and SNES when they were new systems prefer the NES. There is a difference between looking forward (in real time) and looking backward having not lived through it. There are several ways that NES games are better: 1) action is most intense on NES (less lag and "developer tricks"), 2) more first party games (3 Marios, 2 Zeldas, etc...), 3) light gun games, and 4) most importantly there is a lot more variety and originality on the NES. One thing that makes a game good (and a console good) is originality. On the NES, Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Tetris were totally original games (also Mega Man, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, etc...). Everything was original. Modern gaming is so far removed from this that it's hard to describe. Breath of the Wild would have been another good game on the NES, but today it is game of the decade. The NES was pure originality and today's gaming has almost none.
These are the reasons why the people who experienced the NES in it's prime consider it one of the best (or simply the very best) systems of all time.
Last edited by The_Liquid_Laser - on 07 September 2020
