Brexit

[EnricoPallazzo]

Ka-pi96 said:

EnricoPallazzo said:

- EU started as an economic bloc and with time became a political bloc. When people voted to join EU back in early 70's (if Im not wrong) it was to join an economic bloc which is absolutely amazing and definitely (almost) nobody would be against it. With time the integration just became more complex, it transformed into a political bloc with almost no power to each country population to make any change on it. Yes there is a parliament but even if, let's say, evil conservatives in england elected 100% of the british representatives in EU parliament, well there is nothing you can achieve, it's just a couple of votes. With time that leads to even grater insanities such as creating an EU army and fiscal union (which will need to happen to keep euro alive).

- Since british people have no say in EU decisions, or at least almost no say since it is just a couple of votes, that leads to creation of several rules and regulations and laws that well you just need to suck it up and accept it, like for example the fishing quotas or environmental regulations that the british people may not agree with and need to follow anyway.

A few issues with this part.

Firstly, the UK had quite a bit of say actually. It was more than "just a couple of votes". The number of seats in the EU parliament is based on population, IIRC the UK had the 3rd biggest population in the EU (behind Germany & France?) so they effectively had the 3rd most say. And much more so than a lot of the other members. Also, how is that different from any other democratic system? I mean, the residents of say Newcastle have "just a couple of votes" in UK politics. So the residents of the UK having "just a couple of votes" in EU politics is pretty similar, no? Although I'd argue that the EU gives people relatively more say than the UK since it's based on population and uses proportional representation rather than being based on borders drawn by the government in a winner takes all system.

Secondly, IIRC the European parliament doesn't actually have that much power. The European council (made up of the national heads of each member country, and since the UK people are the ones that elected the UK Prime Minister they certainly did have some say there) and the commission (which is appointed by the council, so again the UK had say there through their election of the Prime Minister) are more important.

I do agree that it grew too fast and added countries that probably weren't ready for it too quickly though. And that's largely what led to the immigration issues too.

I agree with you, saying its just a couple of seats is a terrible exaggeration from my part. But still, it can be easily outvoted by the other countries which should be normal in a democracy. The problem is that it's "easier" from a person from say Newcastle understand he was outvoted because London people decided for a different outcome on a certain subject because at the end of the day there is a certain unity between them, they are all English.

But on an European view it is much easier for these people to get pissed off they can't do a certain thing because England was outvoted on EU parliament, because at the end of the day they don't see themselves as European. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that I understand where the frustration comes from, specially if you are looking for a scapegoat for your frustrations.