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theprof00 on 26 June 2020
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iron_megalith said:
theprof00 said:

No I don't need to see them, I'm just confused. Like I said, you have the two backwards. My point being that Joel accepted Henry faster than he accepts Abby. Your "case in point" ie, the best example you could use, was Henry. And your Henry example shows him as less cautious. Now you're saying Joel wouldn't even have saved Abby in the first place. But in your own words...that's an assumption. 

Regarding Tommy, in what way do you think it even matters that he invited them? Inviting them had no impact on Joel's death whatsoever. At best, offering home and help as collateral potentially could have dissuaded any violence, and maybe that's why he offered. it's another assumption, yes but it doesn't support your case either. 

Regardless, you won't even address that I'm right about Henry, which is making me second guess even having this debate with you because it comes off as stubborn, and that means I'll just be wasting my time on someone who has clearly already made their mind up.

????????? Joel beat Henry up when they first met. Although that was done in retaliation. Nearly shot him as well after waking up by the river bed because Henry bailed out on him.

Also, you can see that even if they are helping each other, it's a means to an end kind of thing. Only after the sniper area where they started to bond with each other very closely. Also, let me remind you that Joel left a whole family in the intro of TLOU1 just in case you conveniently forgot about that. Him being heroic to random people is not in his character. Tommy? Maybe.

But like I said, whatever you and I say about Joel's change are just assumptions because we do not have any events to bridge us to what we currently see about Joel. How hard is that to understand?

It's not like you said. You were very specifically saying that you were using facts and I was using assumptions.

And again, it's not like I think Joel is the helping type, but we know for a fact that Joel and Tommy go on sweeps. It's like their community job. Happening upon someone and saving them and just coincidentally getting funneled into the house was part of the bad luck. They even mention not expecting to run into thousands of zombies. 

With Henry, the reason It's important to this discussion is because I'm trying to get you to see from the point of view that Henry was worthy of more suspicion  than Abby. If there is a person just there about to die, it just wouldn't occur to most that it's a trap bc if they die there's suddenly no trap. What kind of trap could that possibly be? Even after Henry abandons them, he still doesn't kill him, even though he knows that Henry is not trustworthy due to circumstances. 

But yes, all I was saying is that we are both making assumptions. It just seemed for a while, you were saying with full certainty "Joel would never do that", "they broke his character". That's just an assumption based on a game that takes place 6 years prior for a playable period of like 5 days in a 25+ year apocalyptic setting.