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iron_megalith said:
theprof00 said:

My problem with your argument is that you're simply exerting your opinion as the final word.

It's odd how people can defend Joel becoming morally ambiguous after going through apocalypse, but can't allow a hint of understanding that he also may have softened. Even if he is the exact same Joel from 4 years prior, we never have evidence of Joel being difficult to convince. Despite everyone's referencing of Henry and Sam, it literally took 1 minute for Joel to vet Henry, a person who ambushed them. Ellie offers to join up, Joel rebuts, and then Henry says "we have a hideout, we can rest up there"......and Joel says "alright, take us there".

Or consider this, Joel grew this town from 20 to 400 in 4 years. That means over 300 strangers and wanderers and survivors. Given Joel's standing in the community, it's not hard to imagine that he brought a major chunk of those people in from the wilderness. Sure he may have vetted them all in some super cautious way, but like I said, we have no evidence of that. On top of which, even the size of the town and the love and respect overly displayed towards Joel would serve as positive reinforcement to a "gather and grow" mentality, so perhaps in 4 years his priorities have changed.

But all of this is irrelevant in the long run, I could list myriad reasons. I never even considered Joel to have made some mistake because like I said earlier, these people wouldn't even have killed him before learning his name. I've even beaten TLOU a dozen times, and played it on stream twice the week before part 2 came out. To me, nothing felt out of place about him going to Abby's hideout.

I feel that all you really wanted in the story was a definitive reason as to how he would end up in that situation, but even if the writers came out and gave you the explanation and background or put it in the game as DLC, would you even be able to accept it? 

The difference between your opinion and mine is I allign with what the story has shown us. You on the other hand are just theorizing. Assumptions mean nothing in this argument. This applies to both you and I.

The problem was not about Joel softening up. The problem here is that there was nothing to ease that in. It's like John Wick taking a softer stance in the upcoming sequel despite how John Wick 3 ended. They will have to sell that idea in a compelling manner.

Joel accepts Henry's invitation to his hideout within 60 seconds of meeting him (I can find the exact amount of time, if you wish). Joel and Abby fight off a horde for nearly 5 minutes. Henry ambushes Joel when they first meet, in an area where Joel has been ambushed several times already. Abby is actually about to die from a zombie, and Joel saves her, and conversely Abby saves him.

If you'd like, feel free to add as many examples of how Joel going in to Abby's hideout was character breaking, and I'll show you how they are wrong. Personally, I just played through TLOU twice in the week before TLOU2, so I'm not the kind of person who watches a clickbait youtube video and just swallows the whole load. You don't actually align with the story. You are aligning with an idolized version of a faded memory.

Secondly, there is still no need to ease the narrative in like that. The scene is called a "narrative hook", the entire point of a narrative hook is to pull someone emotionally into the story.