(SPOILER ALERT) Free discussion of TLOU2 with story included

[iron_megalith]

theprof00 said:

iron_megalith said:

You are merely projecting your logic into the matter but don't really have anything concrete to back that up. It's not that Joel does cannot trust people, but it is clear he does not let his guard down that easily. Case in point, when Joel meets Henry and Sam. It took them a while before he completely trusted them. For Abby and her friends, it was almost instaneous. Why he did so is everyone's guess.

However, I kinda see what they may have wanted to portray with this current Joel. Joel has or is trying to move on. His house was filled with things that he likes. He seems to be respected by the people in the town judging by all the flowers people left at his home. Seems like he may be trying be a better person. Not just to Ellie but to everyone else. But without having anything solid to bridge us from TLOU1 Joel and the current Joel, it comes out severly lacking in context and just forces people to formulate theories. I enjoy a story that has a continuous flow. These flash backs served nothing but just force context to conveniently support the events that was happening or is about to happen. It's also one of the things that hurts the pacing so bad.

If you are having a hard time taking the crticisms pertaining to Joel's death seriously, a lot of people are way ahead of you as people like me can't take anything in this game's story seriously with how bad it is.

Saying I'm projecting with nothing concrete is a very convenient argument that doesn't really say much. I could come up with hundreds of reasons why he softened, perhaps something like you mentioned about how he became like a town figurehead. Maybe his past four years has been exactly the same as meeting abby, but they instead join the town. Perhaps Joel hated himself for betraying Ellie like he says in the scene right before that when talking to Tommy. Sometimes people tend to get reckless when they feel they've fucked something up. I could come up with all kinds of ideas because just like in a lot of literature, you don't always know the ins and outs of causation. Sometimes you are required to use your imagination. Generally when parts are left out, it's because in the end, it really doesn't matter, nor is it entertaining or concise to watch every single events causes and effect. 

The point being, if you can't bring yourself to suspend disbelief, you are doing a purposeful disservice to the narrative. 

Personally, I am happier to have a concise narrative with 20 hours of story that doesn't hold my hand through every characters formative whims. I honestly find that kind of narrative storytelling insulting and childish. 

I haven't finished the game, so my opinion on the execution may change, but currently I think the only problem in this argument is that we have a difference in what we each consider to be good storytelling.

Suspension of disbelief does not apply in this scenario. There are boundaries to that. When your characters act so out of place, that is not an excuse that you can use. That's outright bullshit.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 25 June 2020