SPOILERS The Last Of Us P2 SPOILERS

[sales2099]

sales2099 said:

Well now you have to think about degrees. Some political messages aren’t subjects of controversy in video games. A simple game about firing missiles isn’t cause for outrage. Just protest the real thing. Military interventionism is not up there on the list of outrage as other things like say race and religion. 

Your FF7 message is simply demographics. It’s not pushing hetero agendas it’s a game made by Japanese developers who recognize certain realities. That the vast majority of the human population is straight. There would be an issue if it made being gay problematic by comparison...but we all know that’s not the case. I wouldn’t call Japanese people an overly sexist and racist bunch....remember the Resident Evil 5 controversy? Since when do Japanese people exhibit white supremacy? Chris Redfield is a fan favourite and the game took place in Africa. People look for problems that aren’t there. 

Just like western society is mostly comprised of Christians. Not just white people but Hispanics who are just as devout. A big chunk of western society is also conservative. Again not just Christians but the millions of the growing Muslim population. So when you make anti religious messages and overly left leaning messages in western catered games of course you will get blowback....know your demographics. 

Or in LOU2s case one may argue Joel was killed off because ND politics dictate that gaming needs less straight white males. That’s real ramifications of injecting a political bias into video games...causing a fan favourite to die because of the color of his skin. And having you play as his killer...how does ND expect people to get on board with this? 

Final point and I want to make perfectly clear I’m talking about stats. There is little fruit in making a political statement that appeals to a statistical minority while potentially pissing off the majority of the fanbase. It ignores the stats in favour of personal virtue signalling. ND literally put their agenda ahead of fans and profits. Sony won’t be happy about this. 

You said there were other factors at play then gamers merely wanting to keep their fan favourites, hope this answers the question. 

Well... have you played Resident Evil 5?  Cause when I played through the game at first I was thinking "why would people have a problem with this?  Of course zombies will be black in Africa."  And then when I got to the part where I'm fighting literal spear chuckers, living in huts, dressed in tribal garb I'm like... "Oh... ok.  I kind of get it."

This...

Is quite different than this...

And... I don't think those kind of pre-contact tribes are very common in Africa anymore.  I'm not going to assume intentions, but it was a poor choice.

As for FF7, I'm not saying anything about homosexuality.  I'm not saying they're putting it down by focusing on heterosexual relationships, just that portraying heterosexual relations positively, is a pro-heterosexual relationship message.

To think of it another way, let's turn to FF8.  In the beginning we have Squall who is a withdrawn sullen lad.  His relationship with Rinoa makes him open up and is portrayed as a very positive thing.

The message is basically that love is great and desirable. Find your manic pixie dreamgirl.   That's a position that the developers are espousing.

Alternatively, they could have had Rinoa completely fuck Squall's live up, they could have had them wind up in an incredibly abusive relationship, they could have had Squall reject her and instead use his solitude to become an even better SEED person.

FF8 could have had an anti-relationship message.  Instead they have a pro-relationship message.  That's as much of the developers expressing their opinion about how the world should be as it is when two gay characters are portrayed positively in a game.    So, I'd call that a political message.  

As for the rest, you're kind of just making assumptions on what Naughty Dog's motivations are.  You are assuming that they killed of Joel specifically to include a non-white character, and I think that's incredibly unlikely.  If they wanted you to play as a non-white character, they could have accomplished that easily without killing anyone.  And that would probably make more sense, cause I would imagine they don't expect everyone to love this new character.

Basically correlation does not imply causation.  You're saying the conversation went like this: "Well our main priority is to include a "diverse character".  Therefore, let's kill Joel."  How do you know that the conversation didn't go like... "We want to make this story about someone taking revenge on Joel for the horrible things he did.  Oh, and why not make this new character "diverse"?  Couldn't the desire to include more "diverse" characters and the decision to kill Joel have been completely independent?

For Re5 the point was that people were reading into something that wasn’t there because again I wouldnt call Japanese people racist against Africans. It’s just video game design and the lore explained why they reverted to ancestral behaviour. 

Cant speak on Ff8 but I’ll again bring up degrees. Political messages about relationships or anti relationships do not register on the same level as say religion or identity politics. Some subjects are more hot button and others aren’t worth the controversy. 

Did you not see the interviews making the rounds? Everything I said is public record of interviews I read, mostly concerning Neil Druckman the director of the game. Some form of actual ties with Anita S (Feminist Frequency). He went on record saying white males in games are the “default” and he had to rethink portrayals in his projects going forward. That’s a heavy implication Joel’s death was a narrative decision by the company and the plot written around it. 

I get your position of the possibility of plausible deniability. However the personal politics of ND, which again is a quick google search away, is making your scenario increasingly unlikely. The sequel is playing as 2 strong women, which in itself isn’t a problem. It becomes a problem when a fan favourite is squeezed out (Joel) to make way for this form of game they want to create.

Playing as Joel was also a power fantasy for many male fans of the game, and they will be pissed to have him go out unceremoniously because ND has decided to go a different direction. Like I said, know your demographic. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 03 May 2020