| Runa216 said: I'm genuinely curious what to do in this thread, if I'm being honest. Like, okay, I get that it's for LGBT+ folks to talk and to be themselves, but like...to what end? Is it to discuss our sexuality? Is it to talk about LGBT+ representation? is it a gaymer dating app? Like, what could we even do if not discuss our feelings on representation in the media? I'm not being critical, but I'm having a hard time thinking of things to say that are on topic and appropriate without discussing things like the Ellie Lesbian 'issue' (it's not an issue except to bigots who want it to be an issue). Should we talk about what same-sex characters we wanna bang? Maybe talk about our platonic crushes? Characters we wish were gay? Games that exclusively deal with LGBT+ issues? I just don't see much room to discuss the issue without it bleeding over into some variation of the controversies that surround the group. Plus, by corraling all the LGBT+ folks into a corner, it's doing the opposite of normalizing us and in some ways ostracises us. I do understand the intention, but the best way to feel comfortable and to feel welcome is to be able to talk about, discuss, and share our opinions on the matter wherever we want rather than being put in a box. The best way to normalize LGBT+ representation and inclusion is to...act like it's normal (Which is exactly what The Last of Us 2 did, much to the chagrin of a vocal minority of fools). I WANT to discuss these issues, I WANT to address the bigotry, I WANT to make progress, but I don't think this thread is a good way to do so. All it feels like to me is 'you gay folks go over there. Non gays, stay out, oh, and you're not allowed to get saucy by discussing the controversies'. to me, it's a 'Get out' conundrum. Trying TOO hard to be inclusive and welcoming really only leads to being weird and awkward, a type of bigotry that, though nowhere near as bad as outright hate crime, is still pretty offensive. There's always a chance I'm misreading the situation, but that's how I personally feel. Either turn this thread into a place to discuss these issues, or don't have the thread at all. Anything else just feels...weird and awkward and uncomfortable. |
That's a valid point, and ultimately I'd like to hear from the LBGTQ+ community (which for the record, I'm not a part of... not that it's a bad thing, I just want to make it clear I'm not a representative) on what they think this thread should be. And, I think, within reason of course, we will defer to their judgment.
Here is what I see as the problem based on that last bit of interaction. It started out with what I think was an example of what we thought should this thread should be about. A question was posed to lbgt+ community about whether or not they felt safe here. I think this thread was the perfect place to check the pulse of the LBGTQ+ community to see how they felt about how the forums were generally meeting their needs. What happened was we got sidetracked and the conversation largely became about cis-gendered white males (of which I was one) telling LBGTQ+ whether or not this was a safe place for them and how they should feel about lbgtq+ representation.
For me personally, I think the main thing is that I want the thread to be driven by LBGTQ+ users. I think the LBGTQ+ community discussing how they feel about the spoilers and about the reactions to them is potentially a good use of the thread, and I even think there is a place for good faith non-LBGTQ+ users who are making a legitimate effort to understand how the community feels about this issue. I think it becomes a problem when we the conversation instead becomes about debunking the views of one particular user who does not seem to be making a good faith effort to engage with the community. And I think several potential contributors were turned off by this kind of conversation. There are a lot of places where both sides can argue about this issue, but I think the whole point of this thread is to have a pro-LBGTQ+ bias, since there are obviously many places that will have an anti-LBGTQ+ bias.
In short, what I think is important is for the community to really be driving the conversation in the direction they think is most useful. To that end, I won't comment any further, I throw the question out to the LBGTQ+ community. What would you like to see this thread used for if at all?"
Last edited by JWeinCom - on 02 May 2020
