JWeinCom said:
You literally said that characters should not be diverse unless "it adds to the story to character development". Do you apply the same standard for instance to white characters? Should a character only be white if it adds to the story or character development? If not, then yes, you are insisting that there needs to be a special reason for characters to be diverse. The rest of the post is a strawman. As I never said gamers "are anti-LGTB and are the sole reason for there not being enough diversity in gaming", or anything like that, I'm not going to defend a point I never made. I also never said a person couldn't refuse to buy a game for whatever reason they want. But if those reasons are based on bias, they should be called out as such. |
"Yet when it comes to this circumstance where someone is defying gender norms, either through their sexuality or the way the present themselves, there needs to be a special reason. A character can't just be trans because that character happens to be trans. What is the reason that there needs to be this special requirement? I'm open to suggestions but the only logical reason I can think of is that people just don't like that group of people."
This is literally what you just said, but you apparantly forget what you write in a previous post and like to take my posts out of context. "People just don't like that group of people" You could only talk about gamers hating LGBT people here because most people upset with TLOU 2 are gamers and fans of the original so stop acting like you don't know what i'm talking about.
"I also never said a person couldn't refuse to buy a game for whatever reason they want. But if those reasons are based on bias, they should be called out as such."
Well then you just have problems and are a hypocrite cause most people would not call you out for not wanting to play as a heterosexual male/female most just wouldn't give a damn. Neither would you like to be called out on that for such a ridiculous reason. If a Christian doesn't want to play as a homosexual protaganist or a racist doesn't want to play as a Black character then that's their choice and their opinion, it's a videogame. Seriously, grow up and get over yourself.
By the way you never played the original Last of Us game. You most likely have no interest at all in playing the second one either, especially not since it was targeted to white cis gendered males most of whom, according to you, just dont like LGBT people. Now after all the leaks and negative press the game will probably sell less or receive unfavorable gamer reviews must be all because of homophobes just being homophobes right? Nothing wrong with the game's direction at all! You also keep coming up with petty excuses to reinforce the idea that gamers have a problem with more LGBT inclusion rather than what the direction the game has taken.
All i'm getting from you is that gaming community has a anti- LGBT sentiment (which is false) solely based off of TLOU2's negative response. I've giving you a couple of reasons already, but you just ignore them and make it all about the "hate for including more LGBT characters"
SpokenTruth said:
This is a phobic reaction. Given that Ellie was known as a lesbian from the first game, what exactly is unexpected here? She's still a lesbian but now she's of age. Seems like the only thing that changed was her age. Are they mad she's not 14 anymore? No.
And what direction is that? Did the series suddenly become a homosexual relationship simulator?
Sequels never introduce new characters? Never leave behind old ones? No, seems like phobics simply don't like the expansion of the homosexual content. Change those circumstances to something else and I bet you they wouldn't be complaining like they are now.
If you feel like you're being lectured, that's your own fault. That's you. You are being the problem. If there is something that needs to be accepted, it's this. To the privileged, equality feels like oppression. Oh, and if nobody had a problem with her being gay then, they sure as hell do now.
But....she was already known to be a lesbian. What diversity is being added that wasn't already there? Further, if a game starred a group of black, lesbian, atheist cannibals and in the sequel a cis-white, male Christian character joined the group....would you complain just as much about forced diversity? Or would you have ignored the series to begin with because it didn't represent you? |
No, that's not phobic, I like Ellie as lesbian. it's a dissapointed reaction to the mishandling of the story and characters.
That's what YOU want to make out of it, because if somebody questions the game's direction they must simply be anti- LGBT.
See? You keep putting the blame on me because i don't like how the game is ditching old characters and wants to make a social political point when the first game had none of that and didn't became succesful because of that in the first place.
That reasoning won't work on me as i'm a minority myself. Neither Joel nor Ellie represent me because i'm not white, female, a father or gay yet i can relate to both of them. I don't care that the game doesn't represent mixed people such as myself because I don't feel any need to be represented, this is not real life politics this is a videogame i want to play games and enjoy them while playing.
I would not like Street Fighter or Super Mario Bros any more than i already do if they suddenly started to centre around Black people or racism. I like the fact that more games represent more races, ethnicities and sexuality these days because we do exist in the gaming community. But i don't need it to be shoved in my face if it's just there to "prove a point" and be "aware" nobody likes that, people like you just want to force other people to like these politics when that is not what most gamers are looking for in their favorite games and have every right to express their opinions on it.
If you can tell a good story about a homosexual couple then it'll grow with players and they'll start to like it, not by shitting over the previous game and it's fanbase.
JWeinCom said:
Yeah, this is similar to the situation in MGS2. When that came out, there were a lot of people (justifiably I think) upset that they wound up playing as Raiden and not Snake. Yet nobody accused them of pushing a pro ninja agenda or anything like that. |
Pro ninja agenda? I guess that's a thing in wherever your from? Lol.
But yeah most gamers back then indeed didn't like that a fan favorite character was ditched to the side in favor of a new character that came out of nowhere just like what's happening with TLOU 2 right now. So maybe it's NOT about the inclusion of LGBT characters but about bad handling of the characters and story.
BTW people joked about Raiden looking very feminine back then, but he's not trans ... Why aren't you upset about them calling a cis gendered male "female looking" where is the equality? I guess that doesn't work for both sides huh.
| axumblade said: Just speaking with the mods and seeing a few threads on the sites lately that are a bit questionable. This site used to have a massive amount of LGBT users but that number is a lot lower than where it used to be. Overall, do you feel like VGChartz is a safe place for LGBT people? |
i'm sorry if i hijacked this thread, i know it's supposed to be positive. But i really wanted to know what you meant by "safe" for LGBT because i do think this and many other gaming sites are safe for anyone to express themselves and their thoughts. In fact, the mods are doing much more for LGBT to express their opinions here, than for groups of people who don't like the direction of LOU2 because some idiots in their threads use slurs and all of a sudden the thread needs to be locked and opinions get shut down, no room for debate.
I do feel you need to worry about some of the reactions in this thread, however, it seems like many here, along with some mods, defend themselves behind this "victim role" and believe "cis gendered gamers" are out to get them if they even get a slight hint of LGBT thoughts or expression which is just ridiculous. We all just want games to be fun, not be political and divide each other but to open a thread and have a discussion about it just ends it up getting locked and look how many here want all of the LOU2 threads to get locked, they just don't want an open discussion. You either like and accept it, or you don't and get shut down.
