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Snoorlax on 01 May 2020
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TruckOSaurus said:
Snoorlax said:

Yeah i agree and i think most people don't have a problem with who you are and expressing your sexuality, i sure don't.

I agree that if you don't like the direction the game is taking you dont have to buy it, but that's why fanbases exist, they support developers with what they create and pay big money for it. But not when the developers add a certain "message" in to the game that really makes the fanbase feel attacked and divided, in favor of others when none of that is really necessary. It creates an Us vs. Them kind of thing and creates this whole toxic athmosphere for both sides when this is really just a videogame were talking about we're all supposed to have fun playing.

That's the problem right there, for some people LGBTQ+ people being "present" in a game is considered an attack (or an agenda) and in those cases I'd argue they are simply homophobic.

I'd argue that as well, but remember that Ellie is LGBTQ.

Do most people have a problem with Ellie for being LGBTQ?

the-pi-guy said:
Snoorlax said:

Should a thread be locked for questioning a certain videogame with political undertones which weren't neccessary in the first place? But that's exactly what the mods are doing.

The issue is the belief that LGBT has political undertones.  People in real life are gay, bisexual, transgender.  It has as much to do with politics as trees or the sky. Those aspects aren't political undertones, those are aspects that were made political by people who think they shouldn't exist.  Similarly people who see the game as a political statement for those reasons are the ones who want to make it into a political statement.  

The idea that there is a default, and that anything else must be a political statement is something that's actively harmful for games.  It stamps out creativity.  And it ultimately means that people have less games that they can connect to.  

People want variety in characters.  Different designs, different personalities, etc.  It helps us to connect with the experience.  

And it's disappointing that game devs want to make characters that can be connected to, and people attack them for trying.  Imagine a world where every character was female (and maybe you're perfectly fine with that).  But wouldn't you think it was great to be able to have a male character you could connect to?

I'm fairly certain most gamers have a problem with the direction the second game has taken and not with the inclusion of LGBT people it self. It's just that nowadays you can't question anything without being accused of a phobe, sexist or closed minded person. If Naughty Dog wanted to create a game where they can explore homosexual relationships better, then fine why not just make a new IP about it?

No they take an immensely popular game and basically say FU to the fans of the original and that's what gets them so angry. Sure there are a bunch of closed minded people here and there who hate the game just for including LGBT people but i really don't think we have an anti- Homo, Black, Women problem as a gamers community. 

JWeinCom said:
Snoorlax said:

I don't think i need to explain this to you if you'd actually played the first game. Ellie was shown to have romantic feelings for another girl in the DLC which nobody had a problem with, in fact, most accepted or embraced it.

But her sexuality is not what the whole game was about nor even heterosexual relationships, it was about Joel and Ellie trying to survive this zombie apocalypse and building up this father daughter relationship together. 

From the next game's trailers, leaks, interviews and even response after the leaks it seems this whole sexuality thing is a major point of the whole game, ditching old characters in favor of this political acceptance message. Cause you see, some people here like to make it a "Heterosexual vs Gays" thing but it's not about that at all, it's that the game is being heavily directed in a way most fans didn't expect it to go in and is really not what the original game is known for.

I haven't actually played the game, so my comments are based in the general discussions I've seen around this issue.  That being said I believe Ellie was 14 or so in the game?  And this game she's a young adult?  It makes sense that sexuality is going to be a bigger part of her life at this point.  Just like romantic (yet strangely platonic) relationships became much more prevalent in the Harry Potter books as the characters aged. 

Disregarding that, do you honestly think the backlash would be the same if this was a heterosexual relationship?  Because I've seen similar objections tons of times in regards to gay, trans characters, in all sorts of circumstances, yet not once have I heard anyone accused of pushing a heterosexual acceptance agenda. 

Ok so Ellie is lesbian and while it was unexpected, yes, there was no outrage over this. If the developers never bothered to reveal her sexuality, nobody would really know or even care about it, you would just assume that the norm is heterosexual but that's not what they did with Ellie, No problem. They could've shown Joel to be gay from the start but they chose not to. See? Because that's how they set up their story. How come gamers can now be accused of anti-gay or anything like that just because we question the second games handling of it's story and characters?

In the second game Ellie and Joel are being thrown to the side for a new character nobody knows anything about, other than that she's out for revenge and happens to be LGBT and comes really out of nowhere. Fans just don't like the way this is going and i understand their frustration because it feels like we need to be lectured on acceptance when nobody had a problem with Ellie being gay.

Add, diversity if it adds to the story to character development, not for the sake of being "aware"

Last edited by Snoorlax - on 01 May 2020