The NFL Thread 2019: The Kansas City Chiefs Win Super Bowl LIV

[MTZehvor]

Shaunodon said:

MTZehvor said:

"The Patriots will very likely have somewhere in the range of $13 million in cap space following the execution of Brady's new deal. You're telling me the great Belichick couldn't free another $3 mil in cap to shore up their o-line? I mean they were more than willing to carry over $5 mil in dead cap to have a short fling with Antonio Brown, all just on a whim."

Right. $13 million (it was actually closer to $12 million when Brady's contract was finalized but that's a small nitpick) left over to spend on not only Trent Brown, but Stephen Gostkowski, Trey Flowers, and any other free agents they would go after (Michael Bennett, Jamie Collins, Demaryius Thomas, Danny Shelton, etc.). So let's assume that the Patriots do tag Trent Brown. How do you propose they pay for anyone else? You yourself are the one criticizing the team for not surrounding Brady with enough pieces, so would you rather them spend on those players, or basically bundle all of it into a single package for one offensive tackle?

Belichick realized pretty early on that there was no realistic way he could keep Brown around while simultaneously trying to shore up as what he viewed as areas of need. Sure, he could take steps to free up cap and sign Brown; restructure some contracts here and there like they did to fit Sanu in. But you're basically ensuring that you can't go after anyone in free agency. Look at the impact Brown made on the Raiders and compare it to, hell, just Collins and Shelton alone, who the Patriots paid less than half what the Raiders paid for Brown.

If you're gonna start a poll, I'd rather you did it here. Doesn't have to be this thread. But I don't ever check the NFL subreddit, and I'm not going to for this.

I mean, I can take a screenshot for you if the prospect of clicking on a link is truly that repulsive.

I'm also a little surprised that you'd trust this thread, given that it seems like you've insulted just about everyone on here at one point or another. But, very well, I'll change the poll. Note that we're going to have an extremely small sample size, so there's an inherent limitation on any conclusions you can draw.

"an aging LT that underperformed in 2019" Trent Brown? The guy that just turned 27 and made the Pro Bowl?

Brown missed an entire third of the season. He posted an AV of 7. Despite being the highest paid offensive lineman in the league, he wasn't even ranked on PFF's top 25 offensive linemen. In fairness to him, injury hurt his production, but it's tough to look at a contract of that size and say that he didn't underperform. Incidentally, that should probably tell you all you need to know about the concept of using a pro bowl as a measuring stick for the quality of a singular season. A guy who was injured for an entire third of the year made the pro bowl.

As for aging, yeah, for an o-linemen, mid-late 20s is certainly "getting up there." 

Your statement was pretty conclusive that they couldn't have any space for Trent Brown.

Very well, since I have to apparently spell everything out to the finest detail.

Obviously, it was within the realm of human possibility for the Patriots to bring back Brown. Just like the Patriots could, if they really wanted to, release their entire offense to free up cap space and trade their next ten first round picks to bring in Aaron Rodgers. It should be extremely obvious that I'm not saying they literally did not have the ability to bring in Brown, but rather saying that there is no realistic way they could have without compromising a substantial part of their plans moving forward.

I've given you articles from fan sites not only disproving that, but also advocating for why it would've been the right move.

The article (singular, the other article just proposes going after Trent Williams) that you linked that actually supported going after Trent Brown advocated for doing so with exactly the same logic I explained above. Throw out any hope of getting free agents, give up on Flowers off the bat, and just shoot for Brown instead. So, again, if you're willing to go back on what you've argued for all along and say that the Patriots should have spent big on one person and then have had nothing to go after anyone else to improve the team, sure. Imo and in the view of most of the fanbase, that was utterly ridiculous. Most of the people who wanted to bring Brown back were thinking he'd be willing to take a team friendly contract at $11-$13 million a year. Very few thought it was realistic to tag him.

Trust me. I'm an actual fan of, you know, the team. I'm pretty familiar with how the Patriots' decision to let Brown leave went down.

How about you actually try researching and verifying some of the topics you talk about for once, so I don't have to keep wasting energy doing it for you.

I could realistically say the same to you. I'd encourage you to do the math yourself, if you don't believe me, rather than just googling articles supporting your position and parroting them without understanding the logic behind them. Here's the entire Patriots roster from 2019, along with their cap hits (you'll have to change the year to 2019). Please, by all means, tell me who you would cut in order to find room for an extra $13 million or so. Since you are obviously so well informed, I assume it will be easy for you.

"Michael Bennett, Jamie Collins, Demaryius Thomas, Danny Shelton, etc."

Hold on, is this really the haul of players you're trying to use as an example for why they needed to keep all that cap? One of them never even played during the regular season, one of them quickly became problematic and was shipped off, and two of them are apparently so irrelevant you didn't seem to care about them leaving when mentioning, "virtually the entire defense is coming back".
Who exactly are the pieces here that Tom Brady would've really missed? Because I sure didn't see them on the field when his 42yr old ass was running for dear life. I'd have much rather they didn't just keep adding pieces to try and overload a defense, which could never stop the run anyway, and actually got Brown so they could have a chance of a functioning o-line and run game themselves.

"Trust me. I'm an actual fan of, you know, the team. I'm pretty familiar with how the Patriots' decision to let Brown leave went down."

Honestly though, what advantage has that given you over anyone else that happens to follow the team? From all I can tell, it's just made you more inclined to ignore any questionable decisions they may make.

We'll set aside the fact that Jamie Collins himself posted an AV of more than twice what Brown did and actually showed up on PFR's top 25 LBs despite not starting for the majority of the season and also apparently in spite of your claims of irrelevancy as well, and move on to the larger point.

There was a time, believe it or not, last season where the Patriots were considered to have easily the best offensive weapons in the league. Even before Antonio Brown was picked up (and then quickly released). New England had Julian Edelman, Josh Gordon, and Demaryius Thomas at receiver. Losing Chris Hogan seemed like small potatoes. Trent Brown was the only member of 2018's top offensive line not returning. Sony Michel, who scored 7 TDs in the previous postseason, looked like he might develop into the first real rushing threat the Patriots have had since Corey Dillon.

The defense, conversely, was what looked shaky. A large number of players had been replaced at defensive line and LB. Flowers, Malcolm Brown, Eric Rowe, starters or significant role players in defensive spots, had left and were largely replaced from within rather than major free agent acquisitions.

So, you tell me. You're Bill Belichick. You have an offense in the summer that ranked 4th the year before. You've lost Gronk and Chris Hogan, and replaced them with Josh Gordon returning from suspension and Demaryius Thomas. Most people regard you as easily having the best receiving corps in the league. Your defense, conversely, ranked middle of the pack last season despite an impressive Super Bowl performance, is losing some key performers. What would you go after?

Sadly, the Patriots ran into an abyss of bad luck on the offensive side of the ball. David Andrews suffered blood clotting and had to sit out an entire season. Andrews injury forced Marshall Newhouse into action, which is a big portion of why Brady was running so much. They acquired Antonio Brown, which meant realistically having to let a receiver go or understaff a position badly. But then Brown happened to run into all sorts of drama, which meant that both Thomas and Brown were off the team yet with nothing to gain. Gordon got injured, saw his production suffer, and then it turned out he was still having drug problems after getting traded. Sony Michel never really developed. Julian Edelman got injured later in the season as well, if reports are to be believed. Mohammed Sanu suffered a leg injury virtually just after they traded for him.

Regardless of who you want to blame for those incidents and why (especially Antonio Brown), it's tough to stick blame with preseason free agency decisions on Belichick. The offense looked, by all means, stacked. The defense did not. Regardless of how the season played out, at the time, it seemed like a no-brainer to spend money on defense rather than sink all your cap into an OT.

Honestly though, what advantage has that given you over anyone else that happens to follow the team? From all I can tell, it's just made you more inclined to ignore any questionable decisions they may make.

Because it means I actually follow the team. Not just one player on the team. So when I see Tom Brady running for his life on the field, as you describe it, I know how we got here rather than googling like two articles and immediately assuming the whole thing was just the Patriots management not caring about giving Brady help