| That Guy said: No takers on the Biblical accounts? I suppose I'll have to respond to them: The red/purple cape: The gospel writers didn't have access to Hex Codes and web colors, so we don't know exactly what kind of purple the cape was. Mark and John say that is was purple, and Matthew says that it was red. So the three gospels agree that there was a red hue to the cape. So perhaps the cape was more of a reddish purple or a maroon or something. Joseph of Bethelem: It wouldn't be a reach to assume that Joseph himself was born in Bethlehem and his family (parents, etc.) were based there as well. Did you know there were two Bethlehems in the Bible? Well Matthew cleared it up saying it was the Bethlehem which was David's city. This corresponds to Micah 5:2, where it prophesied that the messiah would come out of Bethlehem-Ephrathah. Time of Jesus Death: You do know that Jewish dates go from sunset to sunset, right? The passover celebration was celebrated the night of Nisan 14 (of the jewish calendar) and Jesus technically the same day, before the next sunset. True, we have no original texts anymore, nor do we paper with Luke's autograph on it. Unfortunately, everything was written down on paper, and paper doesn't last forever. The only way we will know for sure is if we invent a time machine and go back in time or whatever. And my explanations are not at all perfect, but they are plausible. But that's what we're supposed to do right? Take the evidence and look at the different conclusions. It looks like you guys came to different conclusions than me. I'm cool with that. |
In the very act of trying to save the Bible, you seem to have fallen right into the very trap you wanted to avoid. Your answer to the "red/purple" cape was very telling "So the three gospels agree that there was a red hue to the cape. So perhaps the cape was more of a reddish purple or a maroon or something." You have put the truth of the matter between all the gospel accounts instead of inside them. This seems to be your strategy to defend against Erebus and my attacks on the Bible. But this makes you implicitly admit the very thing we want you to say; the Bible is not a book to be taken literally. In fact it cannot be taken literally. It must be interpreted. It is mixed with some tall tales, contradictory stories, some truth(?), and other bits. (Again, did a star really lead the 3 wise men or not? Did it stop above a house? How does a star do that?)
On the point about the census, see Erebus post. It gives the reason why Joseph went back Bethlehem explicitly. Also we know much about the Roman Empire at this time, and this census as it is written is not mentioned anywhere else. They had to make Jesus come out of Bethlehem at all costs, because of the Old Testament prophecy.
Your response to the problem of when Jesus was killed is not a good defense. This discrepancy is not reconcilable. No matter how good your imagination is, this problem will not go away or be fixed. It has nothing to do with the Jewish calendar, but when the Passover meal itself was eaten. In Jesus day this festival was a major event. Jews would come a week in advance to ritually purify themselves. In the afternoon before the Passover meal was eaten Jews would bring a lamb to be slaughtered to the temple. The rest of the day they prepared for the meal that evening. The day when they were preparing was called the “Day of preparation” (not a lot of thought went into the name I guess) The meal was then eaten after it got dark. That is on the day of Passover itself.
Now let’s look at Mark and John. Mark is the earliest account, so let’s look at that first. In Mark ch14:12 the disciples ask Jesus where they are to prepare the Passover meal. Jesus instructs them. This means this event is taking place on the “day of preparation for the Passover”. That night, they eat the meal. At the meal Jesus takes the bread and says “this is my body” and takes the wine and says “this is my blood”. I’m sure you know these famous words. Jesus goes out to pray, is betrayed and spends the night in jail. The next morning, that is the morning of Passover, the day after the Passover meal had been eaten Jesus goes before Pilate. He is ordered executed immediately. It takes place at 9 in the morning.
This is in conflict with John. In John too, Jesus has a last meal. In John there is no mention of this being a Passover meal. Jesus does not speak symbolically about the foods at this meal in John. He goes out to pray, is betrayed, and spends the night in jail. The next day he appears before Pilate. But we are told that the Jewish leaders who were his accusers refused to enter Pilates residence because they don’t want to become defiled and so prevented from eating the Passover meal that evening John 18:28. Whats this? Didn’t they already eat the meal? We are told later in John 19:14 that it is the day of preparation for the Passover and it was about noon. The day of preparation? Mark says Jesus lived through that day.
In John, Jesus was executed before the meal began.
Jesus is killed at a different time on a different day.
Now do you fully see what problem is at hand here? But this is not all. We know why John told the story like this. He wanted to say that Jesus was the “lamb of god” (the only gospel that says this about Jesus) He wanted to say Jesus died exactly when the lambs were being slaughtered. John changed history to make a theological point. This explains the day and hour change. This cannot be reconciled.
This is a battle that you cannot win. I may not have my sources on hand as I would like, but it seems like Erebus does. His cannons are loaded. If you think he is finished with just what he wrote in his previous post, you are mistaken. If he knows what I think he does he could fill a book. I do not even need that. The time of Jesus death is enough.
Finally I would also like to add that I like to play an occasional game of Space Channel 5 myself too.
