Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

[vivster]

dark_gh0st_b0y said:

vivster said: answers below bold :P You say that there is no point of a bunch of dead rocks to exist. Then why do a bunch of dead rocks exist in the first place? Also, what makes you think that humans are in any way special? In the grand scheme of the universe humans and any other living things are random bunched up atoms that follow natural physical laws. Nothing about humans is special, we're no more than fleshy rocks. We exist from the very same atoms that are abundant everywhere in the universe. 1. if there is no god then indeed we are a result of random atoms coming together in the right conditions, which leads to us being a kind of insanely over-complicated robots, programmed by DNA sequences on how to respond based on our surroundings... WITH NO FREE WILL - can science prove that we have no free will? there cannot be proof for god - just signs - but the contrary can be proved!! yet science cannot prove that there is no free will Christianity supports that god gave us free will (or what we call a soul), and that's what makes humans special Next point. Religious people like to use god as an example of the creator of the universe because as of now we cannot accurately explain what happened before the big bang. That's really cool and all. I cannot say either and I would be a really bad scientist if I completely rejected the notion that the universe might have been caused by an intelligent entity that lives outside of it. However here comes my big problem with religion. It is a huge jump from "someone created the universe" to "there is that bearded fellow who knows all, does all and loves us so much". I do not reject the theory of a grand creator, but I do very much reject the notion of every religion to portray that creator as omnipotent, omnipresent  AND omnibenevolent when it is obvious that he cannot possibly be all 3. yes you definitely have a point here!! personally I accept that there is a creator by mathematical probability, and therefore it makes sense to me that such a being would try to reach us and shows us some basic things after watching our shit, and based on that, if there is a religion that can be true, that is Christianity, based on how Jesus teaching makes sense, how it is the faith that gives us hope, reasonable freedom compared to other religions and a better life in general, and there are too many coincidences with science of course, even the evidence that Old Testament was written hundreds of year BC and yet evidence that Christ existed when he did, predicted to change the world, and his teachings are just so real, , things that science can never teach ya, his early followers going through the worse of humanity to deny him, and the list goes on and on, it is just makes too much sense to me to be fake, even the most genius writer could never plot that through the centuries...!! Christianity accepts that we cannot understand god, we have some guidance from him or the trinity or whatever but that's it, there's absolutely no point trying to figure out something beyond our understanding, just like a dog can never understand wtf its owners are doing :P we just live our lives in hope, trying our best under Jesus, and we will all find out eventually I don't reject things because of ancient representations and interpretations, I read things myself, and god could literally be anything, a deity, a universal power, a nature force, anything we cannot reach-understand, god is just a word for the creator in my view agnostic and Christian is not that far, one of the reasons why I do not stick to sub-divisions... Christians believe that the creator saw our shit and did something to guide us, no need to be bothered much with what exactly god is, it is his existence that matters The story of how the universe started is a mystery, but everything that happened after the big bang is 100% explainable by simple physics, without the need of any additional influence. 2.... simple physics? there are so many things on the human body that we cannot explain, otherwise we would be able to fix anything on our body, we would resurrect the dead and be immortal... science is incomplete the big bang is everything! everything was perfectly calculated from the start, without the big bang and what caused it, there would be no physics to lead to us 3.makes more sense that such a being had a perfect plan from the start rather than doing things on the go The fact that we haven't found life on other planets yet is a joke argument because humans are very much limited by physics and our range to detect things is so incredibly small that it's no wonder, especially considering how low the chances are for life to develop on a planet. Pulling that argument is like sitting in a boat in an ocean and then claiming that land doesn't exist because you can't see any. 4. the boat in the ocean.... but we know there is land right, otherwise where did the boat and human come from based on chance, life beyond earth can very well exist, the point is how hard it is for the conditions to match for live to exist, and how huge the universe is, beyond our perception, that our advanced as we believe science could not detect even a slight sign, a radio wave, anything On that notion I would like to pose another question. What happens if we do find life some day? What will this mean for an all powerful creator who has chosen earth to create life? Wouldn't that prove all the scriptures wrong? the writings speak of how earth came to be inhabitable under god's creation, it does not refer to or exclude any extraterrestrial life, it would then have to explain planets and the universe etc which is not the aim here I don't see how possible life on other planets comes into conflict with the scriptures, human is a result of god's creation by the bible, but so are the animals, plants, insects, microorganisms and everything else that is part of our very existence and survival, too there could very well be any kind of life on other planets, but the most interesting question would be, are they just plant like or animal like creatures? or do they have enough intelligence to have been contacted and be guided by the creator? do they have enough intelligence to overcome animal instinct? maybe they are much more intelligent than us and god came closer to them, gave them more abilities and senses that we cannot imagine so our science is a game for them, but then would they not have been able to contact us? have they done so in the long ancient past, crazy beings we see in South American caves and Egypt and we call human fantasy, but have been regarded as their gods? who knows, there are so many things unexplained like buildings and stone cuts that no way could be achieved at the stone age, they can barely be achieved today or not at all, scientists that leave all these possibilities open!! I don't say I believe these things at all, I focus on what actually affects my life and my loved ones life, but is interesting to hear the arguments of those scientists and historians damn I'm literally writing essays in here without even noticing :/

1. Free will is a philosophical concept that doesn't exist in the physical world. It's a made up thing that humans use to order societies. Every living being is acting upon its past experience, its outside influences, based on their own genetic make up. Free will is about as real as unicorns or god. It's a concept that was invented by people to make people feel better about themselves. Science won't engage with that concept because it's not scientifically relevant. That's why we leave it to philosophers.

2. Human understanding has explained the majority of things that seemed like magic at the time when god was invented to explain those things. We are continuously expanding our understanding and anything that seems far out of reach today has at least a couple of scientific theories on how to accomplish it in the future. Humans have a finite amount of resources and time, so of course it takes time to discover it. And you can be sure that in the future we will actually be able to fix everything in our body and we will understand everything about our body. Because it's all physics and chemistry and we've already figured out most of it.

I find it incredibly insulting when religious people try to fault scientists in their slow progress when religion is one of the major factors holding back scientific progress. Without religion we'd be at least a few hundred years more advanced than we are now.

3. How can you say that the plan is perfect when you cannot understand the plan? And what around you looks in any way perfect? Humans are laughably imperfect beings that constantly stand in their own way. What kind of cool plan involves creating people that hate the concept of you? Hell, all of the imperfections in our universe are basically evidence that there is exactly no plan at all.

4. Science has so far reached physical limits. Unless we somehow manage to surpass the speed of light our reach into the universe will always be small. That we haven't found anything isn't really our fault. The vast majority of the universe is literally outside of our grasp. What kind of idiot would waste so much space just to raise his own little human colony on a tiny insignificant part of it?

And here we are at the end of this whole idiocy. The point that makes religion worthless.

There is a god that has "a plan". The god is either not all powerful, not all seeing or not all benevolent. That is evident by all the pain and suffering. So we can't understand his plan and we get constantly dicked over by him. Now you tell me why I should worship a pathetic little sociopath. So that he can bless me with more misery? Gift me with free will and then punish me for having free will? No. The concept of god as portrayed in abrahamic religions is garbage. If anything there should be nothing but vile contempt for this god. All the "love" he gives us is in no way equivalent to all the pain he dishes out. This is not a god worthy of respect, let alone worship. And as evidence shows god himself doesn't even care about being worshipped. And why would he? He's all powerful, he doesn't need anything from us. God has literally no effect on our lives, just as we have no effect on him. So why even acknowledge such a bastard?

Happiness comes from within, not from god. People can be happy without even having a concept of god, so why put a meaningless face on a thing that everyone can experience regardless? If I can live a happy life while rejecting god, where is the point? Why look up to something that has no evidence to exist while simultaneously also has no influence whatsoever on my life. And since there is no reason to worship a god, there is also no reason to chastise people who do not worship said god. And that is the crux of the whole issue.

Last edited by vivster - on 22 April 2020