JWeinCom said:
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
have in mind that in Christianity (meaning a follower of the Chirst) ANYTHING not said by JESUS is said by humans and therefore open to interpretation as of how it represents the 'will of god', and the interpretation given by ancient people is based on the knowledge and circumstances of the times, there is no obligation for Christians to follow anything that is not said by Jesus, modern believers know it well, but atheists conveniently stick to anything else except the word of Jesus...!!
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respone below bold :P
Nothing in the bible is said by Jesus. The Gospels are not the words of Jesus, they are the words of the gospel writers, claiming to have accurately recorded the words of Jesus. If human words are subject to error, then we have no way of knowing if Jesus actually said anything that is reported. If on the other hand you claim the bible is divinely inspired and not subject to error, then you have to take the whole thing as true.
very true!! unlike the Quran which is claimed to be written as revealed by god, by a man that didn't know how to read or write, the Bible was written over centuries (as proved by science too) by god chosen witnesses, therefore it is a fact that Jesus was expected to arrive centuries before he did, it is also a fact that he lived, the whole Bible is for Jesus and his teachings the most basic and useful things in there, why would it be written in the first place if it wasn't his, why would he have left such impact, why suffer, it was all about spreading universal love to self-destructive humanity that was killing for money, throwing old people, sick people and little gilrs to die because they were useless in working to produce food in the fields or fight, that's how fcked up Europe was before Jesus followers (saints - apostles who wrote the New Testament) spreading his teaching with no personal interest and dying in the worst ways... if Jesus was nothing he wouldn't be crucified
nothing is absolute anyway, what's the evidence that my best friend loves me, what's the evidence that my girl cares about me and not my good body and would not abandon me if I would deform my face in a car crash (god no), what's the evidence that 5G is safe as claimed by scientific investigations that are funded by telecom companies? same for many other science that cannot be reproduced unless funded by $$$$$$.... it's not always about evidence it's about what makes sense to us and what seems to be real with pure intentions when there is no personal interests and motivations for gain of power or money
Besides that, the laws are reportedly the words of god. If you believe that the bible is accurately recorded at least, then the laws of leviticus are the words of god, and should carry equal weight to the words of Jesus. If Jesus' recorded words supposedly show the will of god, then surely god's recorded words should show the will of god as well.
Moreover, if you get rid of everything not said by Jesus, you'd have to get rid of the entirety of the old testament. That means there's no original sin and no messianic prophecies. So, no reason for Jesus to exist in the first place, and no way show he is the messiah.
And of course, Jesus himself says the exact opposite of what you have said.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. ForI tellyoutruly,untilheavenandearthpass away,nota singlejot,notastroke of a pen,will disappearfromtheLawuntileverythingis accomplished.So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:18
Jesus specifically says that all of the laws in the old testament are still valid. So if everything Jesus says is the will of god, then all of those laws are too.
this is definitely not the case because Jesus REJECTED stoning (something you mentioned in the other thread but I didn't have the chance to reply), when his disciples asked him whether the bitch should be stoned as the Old Testament said, he said that 'the one without sin may throw the stone first', obviously no one is without sin so no-one remains to stone her except Jesus, but he simply lets her 'go and sin no more', how genius is that!? not only he rejected stoning by refusing to commit it, he also gave a lesson of not criticizing others (not the first time, he said 'do not judge for you may not be judged' before), and he forgives her!! a single event yet so much we can take, the most useful things in life :) things science will never teach ya
and back to the point... he REFUSED to follow a law as you call it something from the Old Testament! could he be contradicting himself? The most logical explanation is that he referred to the Ten Commandments that was the first and most important orders given by God, the rest was guidance for Israelites in order to ensure that there is nation indeed for Jesus to come in, as part of God's plan
the point of the Old Testament was to set up the conditions for Jesus to arrive and leave an impact to the world, Jesus is the point of the whole Bible and when there is contradiction, his word supersedes anything said in the Old Testament or in the New that is not his word
as I said before, the forgiving and not criticizing Christ is what Christians should at least try for, as Jesus has shown no one is without sin anyway, we are doing the best we can at least
Science and god are not compatible in the sense that belief in god can be scientifically justified. There are definitely lots of very smart scientists that believe in god, (although many more that don't) but none of them have put forth a scientifically valid reason for this belief.
as I said above there are infinite things in life that we trust blindly without seeing them and without evidence but still believe them if they make sense to us, we trust the signs or we don't, I don't see why faith should be any different, especially since it gives hope to people and cannot be proved false either
the creation cannot reach the creator!! it is impossible to have proof and it's better this way since people would live miserable lives under fear, at least now people will be judged based on their pure good intentions and not how much they obey because it is in their interests, despite being evil rotten bastards inside
on a side note, there cannot be proof for god - just signs - but the contrary can be proved!! that there is no god and that indeed we are a result of random atoms coming together in the right conditions, which leads to us being a kind of insanely over-complicated robots, programmed by DNA sequences on how to respond based on our surroundings... WITH NO FREE WILL - can science prove that we have no free will?
Christianity supports that god gave us free will
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