Pemalite said:
EricHiggin said:
Science hasn't been the sole reason no, but science also hasn't been around as long.
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Say what?
Science has existed before modern man, while we were still in caves and discovered primitive tools and fire, before we could form coherent sentences and speech, to even comprehend any religious doctrine.
That pegs it to about 1,000,000 years or more. Minimum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans
The Christian Religion? (Which is written on paper... A scientific invention...) was 6,000 years ago.
HMMM. Science > Religion.
The Aboriginals of Australia have existed for about 50,000-125,000 years and are genuinely an ancient civilization... It makes your Religion seem new by comparison... Almost like it was invented?
https://www.oldest.org/culture/civilizations/
EricHiggin said:
Without religion ever existing, would things be better or worse now? Does anyone know the answer to that? Is there an answer? Science has done more good than harm, so far, but so has religion, so far. Both can be improved.
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Better without religion.
We probably wouldn't have had the crusades that wiped out millions.
We probably wouldn't have burned witches at the stake.
We probably wouldn't have attacked the LGBTQI community for thousands if years.
And we wouldn't have science deniers. - Flat Earthers will often reference the Bible to justify their flat-earth beliefs... Others use the Bible to deny evolution and basic geological factoids.
We wouldn't have terrorists who use Religion to kill people today.
So you can bet I stand by the belief we would be better off without religion.
EricHiggin said:
Science is based on how the physical universe functions. Religion is based on the spirituality behind it. It's not comparing apples to apples. Do you also think movies, tv shows, books, etc, that are fictional, are a joke and an insult to a free thinking individual?
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There is no evidence that any of the spiritual hocus-pocus exists... So religion being based on that is irrelevant.
Movies, TV Shows, Books etc' that are fictional are ADVERTISED and KNOWN to be fictional... People aren't trying to pass something off like Independence Day as something that actually occurred in human history like Religion.
So no... They aren't a joke to a free thinking individual.
EricHiggin said:
Everyone is also born selfish and greedy. If kids weren't 'indoctrinated' in some structured manner, the world would be absolute chaos compared to what we have now. The strong would absolutely cripple the weak. Is that natural default a better world to live in?
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I disagree that everyone is born selfish and greedy.
Doesn't make indoctrination right.
My position is... That religion is a joke... And should be totally shut down from top to bottom until they can prove their assertions.
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
for what problems exactly is 'religion' responsible? and for which war was 'religion' the sole excuse for war? 'religion' has never been the sole excuse, there is no such thing, the excuse was always fear, control, power and money!!
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Of course fear, control, power and money were the drivers.
Christianity pretty much has a "storefront" in every single town, in every single suburb, in every single city, in every single state, in every single country on every single continent of Planet Earth.
They then have individuals walking around every sunday asking for donations/money.
They have massive influence in our political structure across the planet, even the educational systems.
Christianity uses the fear of death and torture to indoctrinate people into it's religion.
As for religious wars... Here is some reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
also 'religion' is too general, which religion? there are huge differences between Christianity and Islam, 'do not murder' is a basic commandment in Christian scripts, but Islam permits the murder of non-believers that refuse to believe in Islam
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I have provided plenty of examples prior in this thread where Christianity and Islam are not to dissimilar.
Islam is based upon the Bibles Old-Testament teachings... In that, both religions are absolutely similar... And before you say "That is old testament". - I shouldn't need to remind you that there are plenty of Christian denominations that stand by the old testament 100%.
Nor should I need to remind you of New Testament scripture that points to the Old Testament as still being binding.
In-fact... The Bible is a horrific and evil book from start to finish.
Have a read: https://www.evilbible.com/
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
Science is a discovery and goes just as far as the discoverer's capability, it will reveal nothing that goes beyond the human, therefore any comparison with religion is irrelevant, I major in science and being a Christian, there is no scientific discovery that disproves Christianity thus far
some are born atheist, some have the inner feel that there is something bigger out there, therefore the countless ancient gods invented in the past, originating form the luck of scientific knowledge yes but also the inner feel there is something bigger than human
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False. And an apologetic perspective.
Science pretty much refutes the ENTIRE genesis account.
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
some are born atheist, some have the inner feel that there is something bigger out there, therefore the countless ancient gods invented in the past, originating form the luck of scientific knowledge yes but also the inner feel there is something bigger than human
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Everyone is born atheist.
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
'Science has credibility... Where-as your religion is nothing' hell yeah, the classic modern scientific showcase obsession against religion... the same science that's causing the climatic change that could even lead to extinction, the same science that created cancer, nuclear and atomic bombs that can kill millions with the press of a button, the mass murder weapons used in World Wars that had nothing to do with religion but killed so much more than science can save
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Science isn't the cause of climate change, obviously your definition of science actually differs from what it actually is.
Science is an explanation of the nature world.
Cancer has always existed, it's a biological issue.
  
    
dark_gh0st_b0y said:
lastly, we only have signs like Jesus existence and teachings - there are even miracle testimonies by modern monks, if there was a clear cut proof everyone would believe regardless of his true intentions, there can be no proof, think of it as trying to explain what each colour looks like to a born-blind person, he has never seen colour and never will, he cannot even imagine what red looks like no matter how hard you can try to explain it, cause it is outside of his reality, just like god is outside our reality, Christianity accepts just that, that we can never understand god apart from a few signs revealed to us
people stick too much on the supernatural and afterlife but it's not even worth thinking too much about - except the relief/hope that good-loved people are in a better place - I rather stick to how Christianity applies in real life and is proved to be great for the happiness and well being of Christian believers, as it should
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-atheism-psychology-faith-belief-emotion-mental-health-christianity-a8766376.html?fbclid=IwAR2WmsuBj2mePLINOEO2nSuEC6VyyaOZq6gJ5ZMzLPoinjIpYEtfNrMmB1w
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Miracle testimonies are bullshit. - And are thus not evidence.
I can get testimonies of people who have seen the Earth is flat.
You can explain colour to a blind person, the imagination doesn't stop you know, colour doesn't have to be visual.
And yes you are right... Heaven is a feel-good scenario where a mass-murderer, mass-rapist, pedophiles and so on can "apologize" and get accepted into heaven to live a life of luxury...
Yet a first responder who might have saved thousands of lives might get eternal damnation.
I can see how fair that is. Completely. Yep. Totally.
       
  
    
  
    
       
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Christianity uses the fear of death and torture to indoctrinate people into it's religion.
not always, but those who do it is very wrong, that I agree
Science isn't the cause of climate change, obviously your definition of science actually differs from what it actually is. Science is an explanation of the nature world. Cancer has always existed, it's a biological issue.
excuse me? then religion is faith into a higher deity...! what bias, do we take the side-effects of both or we don't? if you criticize religion used in the wrong way you must also criticize science used in the wrong way, or you have no argument-
there are substances we take in and forms of radiation that did not exist before that are proved to cause cancer, tons of them, otherwise cancer would be very rare
As for religious wars... Here is some reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war
only the Yoguslav was Christian - and very stupid lol - 8/9 are mostly related with Islam, did you know Christians are the most persuaded social group in non-Christian countries?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
the true trigger of the Crusades was fear from the Arab world building and huge army - inspired by the Quran - which had already attacked the East Roman Empire and captured huge land (all of present Turkey) so the Greek king at the time asked the Pope for help as the Christian world was under threat, and the Crusade army was formed, something critical never mentioned in present documentaries, not to feed fanaticism
False. And an apologetic perspective.
Science pretty much refutes the ENTIRE genesis account.
False how? And what part of genesis does it refute? Exactly the opposite, science confirms what can be confirmed from the genesis!
Miracle testimonies are bullshit. - And are thus not evidence. I can get testimonies of people who have seen the Earth is flat.
they are evidence for those who witnessed them!! the fact that they are individual and cannot be repeated any time as science experiments does not necessarily make them fake
You can explain colour to a blind person, the imagination doesn't stop you know, colour doesn't have to be visual.
explain it how? people born blind cannot even understand black! it's just not there
And yes you are right... Heaven is a feel-good scenario where a mass-murderer, mass-rapist, pedophiles and so on can "apologize" and get accepted into heaven to live a life of luxury... Yet a first responder who might have saved thousands of lives might get eternal damnation.
why even bother if you are not religious? breaking one of the ten commandments such as murder would never be forgiven just by an apologize, one would have to truly realize the pain caused to others, go through the pain they caused and truly regret their actions in order to be forgiven
I can see how fair that is. Completely. Yep. Totally.
yep! I agree ;)
Better without religion.
We probably wouldn't have had the crusades that wiped out millions.
We probably wouldn't have burned witches at the stake.
We probably wouldn't have attacked the LGBTQI community for thousands if years.
And we wouldn't have science deniers. - Flat Earthers will often reference the Bible to justify their flat-earth beliefs... Others use the Bible to deny evolution and basic geological factoids.
So you can bet I stand by the belief we would be better off without religion.
other than the flat earth thing which the bible never mentions for god's sake, and the crusade which was an unavoidable war, the rest witches/LGBTQIABCDEFG... thing was a part of human brutality, Jesus basic message is love and forgiveness, not kill those you don't agree with, but of course you only know how Christianity was used by psychopaths and not its true impact on the world, and trust me, it is not random the world's most civilized countries are the Christian ones
50,000-125,000 years human existed and that proves the Christian faith impact, we moved forward starting 2,000 years ago when Jesus came to show us how it's done, and it started from Christian countries, when people started to help and love and support each other rather than looking only their interests, and that led to real progress
We wouldn't have terrorists who use Religion to kill people today.
carried out by muslims who read the Quran that says to kill non-believers, guess what will happen when Christianity falls, many people who need religion will become muslims instead :/
They then have individuals walking around every sunday asking for donations/money.
Lastly, did you know that the Catholic church is world's biggest non-governmental donor? how the heck would it be better without it? LOL as it should be, love and compassion, Jesus main message
focus on the true message, criticize those who try to abuse it for personal gain, not the faith itself
Last edited by dark_gh0st_b0y - on 28 March 2020
