How bad is MGS4 for the image of our hobby?

[jman8]

Garcian Smith said:

 

DTG said:
No, Kojima's games are the saving grace of a hobby that has been consistently degraded as childish and senselessly violent.

Kojima's games actually deal with adult issues and the in game violence (which is only optional) is always done so with reason. Themes of identity, free will, manipulation, memes and many others paint a distinctively adult, mature and inellectual picture over an otherwise unsanitized industry ridden with senseless violence and childrens fantasy tale settings.

 

Um... no.

Maybe I played different Metal Gear Solid games than you, but all I took from them was a bunch of over-the-top in-jokes and fourth wall breaking. When I think of identity and free will, I think of Descartes - or, if you need a parallel in entertainment, Philip K. Dick or Frank Herbert - and not a video game about a super-spy fighting bisexual vampires and other villains with ridiculous powers.

In reality, video games have yet to see the medium's "Citizen Kane," or, the game that makes people take games seriously as an artistic medium. Planescape: Torment came close, but was ignored by everybody but reviewers, and we've only had a few good attempts since.

If anything, Kojima's games - or, more precisely, his fans - only serve to further the stereotype of the uncultured gamer who thinks that, well, games about super-spies fighting ridiculous villains are on the level of great literature or film. If you want something along those lines, go play a Chris Avellone game and call me back in the morning.

 

Literally, no one here has equated MGS with great literature. You are the only who has brought up that comparison. Just about everyone else has said that MGS has tackled some serious themes that are often tackled in great pieces of art, but no one has made that next step and elevated games into the high air of literature. Maybe you're trying to say that games aren't even allowed to tackle similar themes as literature, in which case it is your narrow world view that is holding gaming back, not MGS or its fans.

Edit: Garcian, just look at  DTG's that you commented on. There's not one mention of Citizen Kane moments, nor comparisons between MGS and Descartes. All he says is that there are some mature themes. That's it. Far different from equating MGS and literature. Great job attacking a non-existent population.