| numberwang said: Everybody is frantically posting every computer simulation, model, prediction, etc. that they found on the web and I don't have the time to explain the difference between those and reality for every case. Models aren't reality, only direct observations/measurements are. Lot's of models now mix real measurements with simulated "data" to create the appearance of objectivity, another trap to behold. |
NO they aren't.
I am posting empirical evidence from verifiable, legitimate, credible sources... Aka. NASA. - The Organization that has landed robots on Mars, Landed Man on the Moon, has sent space craft outside of the solar system, who have various satellites in orbit and instruments strewn across the globe.
They are far more credible than anyone on these forums and more credible than anything you have posted thus far.
And if you don't have time to explain, but plenty of time to source some old useless newspaper clippings? Common. A little bit hypocritical.
| numberwang said: A good example for the distinction between model and data is the "Drowning of the Maldives" hysteria which has been predicted forever. After all, the models claim a hockey stick warming and sea level rise. The science is settled, only deniers disagree. Maldives are drowning in 1837 (!) -- the hysteria began early. <SNIP> |
Again. 100 year old bullshit is irrelevant to today.
In saying that... We are loosing islands.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145927/great-fox-is-disappearing
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2146594-eight-low-lying-pacific-islands-swallowed-whole-by-rising-seas/
The evidence is undeniable at this point.
Since 1880 sea levels have increased by 240mm~ with an average rate of around 3.3mm per year.
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/
It makes sense... As the Earth Warms, Ice melts.
And as the Earth Warms... Thermodynamics or more specifically thermal expansion will occur in liquids... And there is a whole ton of liquids in our oceans set to expand.
| numberwang said: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4173156 Drowning again predicted in 1988 <SNIP> http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/102074798 Perpetual drowning in 2018, it just never stops <SNIP> So much for the models but what about reality? Curb your enthusiasm, the Maldives have.... grown bigger, the oceans declined. The old man shows you were the sea line was when he was younger. Real observations vs. fake modelling. <SNIP> Observational facts do not verify the story of a rapidly rising sea level in the Maldives. On the contrary, stability in sea level is well documented for the last 30-40 years.... As their [IPCC] idea is not based on actual field studies only modeling, our observational facts should be held superior. http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/pdfs/Evid_Based_Climate_Sci/Ev_Based_Climate_Sci_Chap7.pdf That objective led a fieldwork team to the Maldives, and resulted in a conclusion that sea level in the islands fell by approximately 30 cm during the past few decades. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818105000780 |
Functional models are built using data and evidence gathered. - To claim they are "not reality" is essentially taking a dump on the scientific method.
Do you know what the scientific method has given you? Every single modern comfort you enjoy today. Every. Single. One.
Internet? Exists because of Science.
Medicine? Also exists because of Science.
Technology? Again. Science.
Your line of thinking is highly fallacious... And it would be awesome if you could take the time out of your super busy schedule if you would respond to posters replying to you instead of ignoring everyone and continuing on your own narrative. Cheers.
As for the Maldives, rising sea levels are a real threat.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2125198-on-front-line-of-climate-change-as-maldives-fights-rising-seas/
Not to mention you haven't even fucking read your own links! You have misquoted sciencedirect, they recognize that sea levels have risen! (Which contradicts all your prior statements on the issue!)
| CrazyGamer2017 said: Oh but I have a feeling that shit will hit the fan long before our grand children roam the earth as adults. |
We will certainly start to notice significant issues before then.
Shit. We already are. Don't become a firefighter anytime soon if the forward projections look like anything.
| CrazyGamer2017 said: You are talking about CO2 and its direct effects to our health which I am not fully familiar with but I am certain these are bad as you explain. But there will be a more pressing problem with increasing concentrations of CO2 and worse with CH4 (Methane). The most pressing issue is the change in climate due to the greenhouse effect magnified by CO2 and the much more powerful CH4. You see the warming of the global climate is going to trigger a whole bunch of positive reinforcing feedback loops which in turn will accelerate the warming which will at some point trigger a natural release of billions of tons of CH4 contained in shallow waters such as the waters of the east Siberian Arctic shelve (The so called clathrate gun) which will accelerate even more the warming of the climate due to the very powerful greenhouse methane gas released. Once these feedback loops are triggered there is no stopping them. |
I agree. I was mostly just posting on how CO2 affects me and how I have experienced high-CO2 exposures... Which the majority of people don't... And thus don't fully comprehend it's extensive ramifications.
| CrazyGamer2017 said: And finally the worst problem that this sudden increase in heat will cause is not climate change or stronger storms, hurricanes, extreme heat and droughts causing massive fires (like we see in Australia) all these are very bad on their own. The worst will come with the crops that are the base for our food, these crops will not resist the coming changes and at some point they will collapse, at first by a few percents then more until 95% of all crops fail to grow and the entire world goes into a famine. No need for me to draw a picture of what that would mean (panic, social chaos, wars all over the globe, starvation everywhere) That's when shit really hits the fan. Can't tell you when exactly that will happen, I can only tell you that we are heading in that direction and we are accelerating towards it. |
We were warned that the effects of climate change would be "directly observable" by 2020 in Australia.
So in a span of 48 hours... I was battling a raging bushfire... Then dealing with a flood that was simply unprecedented in the area.
You just don't get those two kinds of extremes anywhere else.
| o_O.Q said: "I mean that a human being with an allegedly working brain could think for a second that economics>natural order" for the vast majority of people and everyone who visits this forum, economics does trump the natural order whenever we build houses or lay roads to drive our cars or build airports to move across countries what do you believe is happening? to access this forum you use a computer built in a factory from materials extracted from the earth connected via extensive networks spanning thousands of miles how many ecosystems are disrupted within these processes? do you have any idea how much energy is consumed to create consoles and the video games that run on them? or to keep those consoles turned on and connected? how many people in one breath voice concern about how bad climate change is then cheer at the implementation of 5g networks? a lot of this crying about how urgent global warming is to me sounds a little hypocritical, i know personally that if it came to it i could go live in the bush off the grid and still feel contentment with regards to life, fully understanding what that means and how much more difficult life would be, but I don't think many of people people lamenting climate change and that WE MUST DO SOMETHING can say the same |
To be Carbon Neutral doesn't mean giving up your homes, computers, internet, electricity, water or vehicles.
Being Carbon Neutral means only dumping enough CO2 that gets taken out of the system via natural or unnatural processes. (As we use CO2 for various purposes daily!)
That does mean we need to make changes.
It's only hypocritical if you adhere to the right-wing sensationalist propaganda that asserts that we need to give up everything, which is far from the actual truth.
At the end of the day though... For arguments sake...
If Global Warming is real, lots of high-valued properties will be lost to the oceans, various farm land districts will be deserts... And more. - But let's also not discuss the impacts of various cities and communities needing to be evacuated from various island nations and regions shall we?
Or the fact we are wiping out forests at an unprecedented rate, which are often full of undocumented flora and fauna, let's not discuss the potential economic impacts if we accidentally wiped out a plant that could have cured cancer shall we?
Let us say Global Warming is false.
We would have needlessly created a cleaner, more sustainable world for future generations.
I think it is a no brainer to be honest.
--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--
