Rumor:PS5 & Anaconda Scarlet GPU on par with RTX 2080, Xbox exclusives focus on Cross gen, Developer complain about Lockhart.UPDATE: Windows Central said Xbox Anaconda target 12 teraflop

[DonFerrari]

Pemalite said:

HollyGamer said:

I never said that, i said focusing on old tech on old hardware is not helping future game design, because it's obviously and logically holdback any possible idea that could be implemented on games . Evolution happen when we moved from old to new hardware . Using old hardware for game design hampering the ambitious and the imagination for game creator,  game developer, game designer, graphic designer, level artist, level designer , AI engineer, even programer like yourself  on building new games on better environment.  

"You do have diminishing returns, there is absolutely zero point building games to the metal anymore with how good compilers are these days, when was the last time a game was written entirely in Assembly? Didn't happen even last console generation... The same is happening to Graphics API's."

I just proves on the other thread. 

PC though. I can run the latest games on a CPU from 2007. Game design isn't affected.

DonFerrari said:

Just to reinforce I have gave you sources that a lot of coding on TLOU was made on Assembly.

We had this discussion once before I think and the conclusion was that... Assembly was certainly used, but only for the scripting using GOAL. (Game Oriented Assembly Lisp) and it was far from the norm. - Obviously my statement was inaccurate to that end, thanks for pointing it out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp

One thing to remember is that Assembly isn't machine code either. It's a low-level programming language.

drkohler said:
And yes, flops are perfectly relevant to gauge the new consoles. They both use the same identical technology so a direct comparison can be made. If we take the best rumours for the XBox hoard, a 12TF 24GByte new XBox will be significantly "better" than a 10TF 16Gbyte PS5, no question about that.

No they aren't relevant.

FLOPS doesn't account for things like the Ray Tracing Cores and their performance, one console might have twice the Ray Tracing performance than the other... Peoples use of FLOPS does NOT account for that.

There might be other silicon differences as well, Microsoft may continue to opt for a semi-custom command processor in order to hardware accelerate API routines.

And of course... You have units like Geometry, Texturing and so on that flops doesn't account for as well.

Flops is a useless metric, it's a theoretical number, not a real world one. It's always been that way.

Barkley said:

Firstly, I didn't mention anything about performance at all in that post, it's literally just a post saying what the difference is in flops, nothing else.

Secondly, if two GPU's have the same architecture then surely greater flops = greater performance.

Nope.

More flops doesn't equate to greater performance.

Take the Geforce 1030 DDR4 and GDDR5 variants, even if you overclocked the DDR4 variant to beyond the GDDR5 variant, meaning the DDR4 card has more flops, it will still be slower by a significant amount.
Normally at the same clocks/flops the DDR4 variant has half the performance.

DonFerrari said:

After your 10th "it's final" and equivalent, nope not going to fall for it.

He loves to pass rumors off as fact... Lol.

He would love to be a lawyer in Brazil with the "full fledged defense and contradictory" because he pass 4 rumors as true at the same time with they disagreeing between one another.

And about TLOU yep. That was as low as I could find, and I don't think ND have done anything similar on PS4. Also it showed more that PS3 either didn't have a mature enough library for programming or that it was so complicated architecture to make a good use that you had to really put the work (and that is one of the reasons I don't think any game looked better on PS360, because no company put as much work to make a pretty game on it).

Also me not being an expert it would be just a rough guess, but probably the difference you would get from doing low level, down to the metal versus using an unreal or the like is perhaps like 10%. The rest of the difference is just talent in making the assets, animations, etc (just look at the difference in quality between games using same engine).

EricHiggin said:

DonFerrari said:

How sure are you that XB1S sales aren't being propped up by XB1X, and would be even worse without it?

XB1 had it's own issues. Just because RROD was fixed yet replaced with other things that were seen as issues, doesn't automatically make it a purchase this time around.

People may stick with or buy into last gen, but the main point is about next gen sales. If someone isn't going to bother with next gen, why take them into consideration?

How many people bought Wii just because of motion controls? Most of those people bought in because it was also cheap. One main feature to influence a customer to buy is great if you can provide it, but quite often there's more than just one thing that makes you want to buy a certain console.

We can't be sure, but considering the sales only dropped after X1X there isn't any strong showing that either PS4Pro or X1X improved sales of base model (the bump we saw with X1X was mostly due to a drop caused by it when they announced so much earlier and then near launch they announced a price reduction for X1S a to early as well).

Sure X1 have its issue, PS4 does as well. But the point was that PS3 got a lot more hurdle to overcome and was still able to do it.

Sure the point is for nextgen, but we were talking about affordability as well, so we would need someone that wants a new machine, that is nextgen (and won't bother with MS saying that their games will keep being crossgen so X1 would still suffice for him) and also the cheapest one without caring that the performance is much lower with lets say 1080p instead of 4k for a mere 100USD difference. I don't really think that is such an expressive number.

Most people I know and news we have was that people bought it because of motion controls. Such evidence is present that for the first 2 years or so people were paying a lot above MSRP to buy one.

I'm a very conservative person, so for me to go against what we have historically seem on console sales I would need hard evidence instead of speculation for a future state that would be very different from what already happened but without much difference in the situation being present so don't fell bad if I don't agree with you =p