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HollyGamer said:

Using different methods  doesn't mean inventing new wheels, it means they are use seperate ways to render the " rays " , even PS4 and Xbox has different methods on applying their API for games. Microsoft heavy emphasis on their directX (for PC compatibility support)  while Sony use low level openGL

The Playstation 4 and Xbox One certainly do use different API's.
Microsoft and Sony won't even use Direct X or OpenGL for their low-level API's as those are inefficient high-level API's, lower budget/less demanding games will target OpenGL/Direct X due to how easy they are to interface and work with.

But the hardware still skins the cat exactly the same. They aren't rendering things differently, the Playstation 4 GPU's despite not having Direct X is still a Direct X compliant part and developers recognize and work with that.

HollyGamer said:

Cerny explaining how PS4 pro enhanced PS4 games: 

"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

In Pro mode, the full GPU is active, and running at 911MHz - a 14 per cent bump in frequency, turning a 2x boost in GPU power to a 2.24x increase. However, CPU doesn't receive the same increase in raw capabilities - and Sony believes that interoperability with the existing PS4 is the primary reason for sticking with the same, relatively modest Jaguar CPU clusters.

"For variable frame-rate games, we were looking to boost the frame-rate. But we also wanted interoperability. We want the 700 existing titles to work flawlessly," Mark Cerny explains. "That meant staying with eight Jaguar cores for the CPU and pushing the frequency as high as it would go on the new process technology, which turned out to be 2.1GHz. It's about 30 per cent higher than the 1.6GHz in the existing model."

Obviously a dumbed down explanation in order not to confuse those with less technical backgrounds.
In saying that, it isn't some magical "full metal optimization".

Playstation 5 will be an architectural deviation from the Playstation 4, thus software level control is going to play a key part.

HollyGamer said:

Also previous PS5 APU benchmarked leak (Oberon) also indicates that PS5 apu will run with multiple clock speeds based on which's games is running inside the system, 

800 Mhz for PS4, 911 Mhz for PS4 pro, and 2 Ghz for PS5 games, As we know Sony does not have the benefit of API and software expertise unlike Microsoft on emulating . 

Sony also doesn't need it. Sony is relying on the *nix community.
If you think only clockspeed is needed to retain compatibility... Well. You are highly mistaken.

HollyGamer said:

That's why I mentioned above, they are using their "Their directX API"  for raytarcing support, because they have been working with Nvidia and AMD has not yet has the tech, Sony dont have direct X , they can use Opengl tho  support or modified version of Opengl and Vulcan 

Please read my post within it's appropriate context.

HollyGamer said:

I am talking about gaming PC GPU that available on market for consumer product rightnow, (as of rightnow PowerVR does not available for PC gaming and AMD are not yet has Raytracing). Microsoft are using their expertise on DirectX ray tracing with Nvidia to run on Scarlet, this what might be inside Scarlet 

AMD does have Ray Tracing. AMD has had Ray Tracing capability for years, Ray Tracing is inherently limited by compute capabilities, you can do Ray Tracing on an Xbox 360, it just wouldn't be ideal...
nVidia's approach is different, they instead spent a large chunk of their transistor budget on specialized low-precision floating point cores to handle the task.

But that isn't the only approach that can be taken and we don't know yet if it's even the right answer, you can do integer ray tracing for example.

Now would Microsoft be begging nVidia for Ray Tracing processing cores to put on their AMD hardware? Absolutely not.
https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-turing-architecture-in-depth/

At the end of the day, the only evidence we have for anything is that RDNA2/Scarlett/Playstation 5 will feature Ray Tracing "cores". - Everything else is just assertions without evidence.
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/geasrs-5-developper-mentions-dedicated-raytracing-cores-from-amd-in-next-gen-xbox.html

HollyGamer said:

That's why I mentioned above, they are using their "Their directX API"  for raytarcing support, because they have been working with Nvidia and AMD has not yet has the tech, Sony dont have direct X , they can use Opengl tho  support or modified version of Opengl and Vulcan 

Ultimately doesn't matter. The Playstation 5 will be built to adhere to Microsofts Direct X specification anyway, that is just reality since Sony decided to adopt commodity PC components.

HollyGamer said:

They choose using AMD Tessellation because AMD has the tech already, this time around AMD don't have the tech ready available for 2020, RDNA or even RDNA 2 (probably are not going inside PS5 or Scarlet) are not even confirmed to have ray tracing solution 

You are clearly missing the point again.
They could have opted for AMD's prior implementation of Tessellation rather than one that adhered to the Direct X specification, but they didn't, because what is the point? Why would you waste your time and money trying to reinvent the wheel when there is already a standardized design?

RDNA does have Ray Tracing, all GCN GPU's have Ray Tracing, they just don't have Ray Tracing "cores".
AMD has a patent on a Ray Tracing implementation, so if you think they have been standing around and doing nothing for years... Well.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-patents-hybrid-ray-tracing-solution,39761.html

Will RDNA2 have Ray Tracing Cores? We don't know yet. We don't have the evidence to support nor deny such a thing at this point, so you are right there.

HollyGamer said:

The API is super relevant because  every consoles has their own API even Dreamcast and PS2 running on different API, hell even PS4 and Xbox running with different API, maybe some instruction  has Directx Tessellator like you mentioned but that doesn't mean all code and instruction running with the same AP

The API is irrelevant when the GPU designs are already built and adhere to industry standards, the GPU is still doing the same task.

HollyGamer said:

We still don't have any confirmation about RDNA 2 to have ray tracing solution. If they have, then PS5 and Scarlet  might have the same solution , but like i said if they have one there should have been some major leak and many forum dweller wouldn't have to arguing either PS5 have software based ray tracing or hardware solution (back then they were arguing Microsoft will have Hardware and Sony will not have hardware support for ray tracing for nextgen consoles) 

Read Prior. RDNA has Ray Tracing support.

HollyGamer said:

We don't know how far the contract between Sony and AMD is and  also we don't know how much money and times both company willing to invest on engineered their APU, We have a long history from PS3 and Xbox 360 where they even made a special chip for their consoles, and it has become less costume on PS4 and Xbox One era (due to cost ) etc. It's possible to have another IP inside other IP, Hell even inside AMD Navi alone it has different type of IP that patented by AMD for their tech.

Those "special chips" were still built on established designs for another market (The PC).

HollyGamer said:

We have the proves and it existed on Surface that has just launching today 

Citation Needed.
I would need to see an AMD chip with nVidia's tensor cores integrated to believe it.

HollyGamer said:

Can you give prove to this , because if they has one, it should have been available on RX 480, or RX 580 GPU back then 

It's simple. The Xbox One X has checkerboard/sparse rendering support. - If it was a Sony I.P. They wouldn't allow other vendors to use their hardware.
https://www.vgvids.com/exactly-xbox-one-x-checkerboard-rendering/

Rainbow 6 Siege also has Checkerboard rendering on PC. - https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/316496/How_Rainbow_Six_Siege_was_rendered.php

You only need a couple of hardware features to have Checkerboard rendering support in hardware (ID Buffer for example.) - The rest is all in the software.

HollyGamer said:

Is more of the implementation, Microsoft kernel can be used for optimization code to metal but due to Microsoft policy (future backcompatibility, the games also should be coming to Windows and Steam)  it's impossible for them to run the games close to metal.  

No one builds games to the metal anymore, no one builds games in pure assembly anymore.
You can most certainly be able to build games to the metal if you have access to it on any console, it's just pointless.

HollyGamer said:

For this you may be correct , but for what i have read , PowerVr ray tracing method is not that different than Nvidia path tracing methods. So developer will not have difficulty to implement it on their games.  

But we don't know if they are using PowerVR's I.P.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--