Nautilus said:
He posted a video of someon peeing during the carnical, on top of a cvar visible to anyone(if im not mistaken) in a show that had no age restriction, that was meant for all ages.He was just pointing out how absurd that is, which I agree. |
Yeah, and then he took a case that should be on the hands of the police and post it for millions and millions of people to see, including tourists who might be discouraged to pay money and go to Brazil and children who would never have seen that before. That's something that an uncle with a lot of free time would post to his 12 followers, not something the president should be doing.
Nautilus said:
Common term for whoever lives in Rio de Janeiro.May be an oversight by his part, but nothing serious or anything. |
I don't know if you actually don't know or you're willfully acting like you don't, but "paraíbas" is a derogatory, xenophobic term used by people who live in Rio de Janeiro to refer to Northeasterners. Bolsonaro has lived in Rio for a long time, and has apparently caught up with the slurs. It's pretty serious when you are the president of Brazil and call 50 million people from your own country by a prejudiced term.
| Nautilus said: *facepalm*.No he dosent defend child labor in the sense you are putting.He defends the right for a tennager to work and earn money, as long as it dosent get in the way of his education.Think of a family that is having trouble keeping up with the stuff it needs to pay, so that their son can help working 4 hours(give or take), after school, in a local grocery shop.Thats it.Here is what he said on the topic: https://jovempan.uol.com.br/noticias/brasil/apos-live-polemica-bolsonaro-diz-que-nao-defende-trabalho-infantil.html |
Absolutely not. You're straight-up lying. Bolsonaro said, and I quote: "I can confess it now, but at that time it wasn't a crime. (...) I, when I was 9 or 10 years old, would break corn in the plantations and, four or five days after, with the sun out, would harvest the corn. (...) I wasn't harmed at all. When a 9 or 10-year-old child goes to work somewhere, it's full of people calling it slave labour, child labour. Now, when they're smoking crack, no one says anything. So, work doesn't harm anyone. (...) Me and my brothers, with that age, worked in the field. Hard work. (...) Work dignifies."
He defended that 9 or 10-year-old children should work on fields because "work dignifies" and he personally wasn't harmed by it. He was not talking about a teenager working for 4 hours selling stuff at a local grocery store. He was talking about a child working hard on cornfields.
Don't lie to try and defend the indefensible. That only makes you look worse.
| Nautilus said:
Im not too much informed on this, but I believe he refers to Brazil having too much regulations which serves for nothing.But I might be wrong on this one. |
Yeah, you're wrong. You can read some more on this link. Or this one.
Bolsonaro criticized the law that says that employers who get caught employing people with conditions analogous to slavery lose their lands. He also wants to separate what's analogous to slavery and what's "actual slavery", because the first one would be okay, according to his words.
Nautilus said:
And what he said its true.He just framed it wrongly.People like to exagerate that a good number of people in Brazil basically starves to death, and thats simply not true.Yes, some live in extreme proverty, and thats something that needs to be fixed, but its not as big as some publications makes it seem to be.And thats just what he meant.Its just that his first declaration on this topic was unfortunate. |
More than 7 million people don't have enough money to eat, and you're saying it's not that big of a deal? 15 people die every single day because they can't eat enough to sustain their bodies, and you're saying it's not that big of a deal? Thousands of people starving to death every year is not a "good number"? What is a good number, 50%? Do you want half of the population to begin starving to call it a big deal?
This is not even an argumentation flaw, this is a character flaw. You seem to completely lack empathy.
Nautilus said:
Dont remember he saying this.While I also think that this phrase was probably take out of context, I wont comment further on this. |
Saying "I think it's out of context, therefore Bolsonaro is not guilty" is not really an argument. But here's the context. Yeah, exactly what it looked like before the context was given, right? He's saying that because he wants Brazil to ramp up deforestation. He wants to make the environment look like a hippie-vegan-agenda.
| Nautilus said: I dont agree on the child safety seat part(Hey, I approve him, dosent mean I will agree with 100% of what he says), but about the second part, Im 100% behind it.For who dosent live in the country, you guys need to understand that the transit violations in Brazil is almost a mafia, to the point that speed cameras are hid, so that they can catch you on roads that should have higher speed limits in order to get money from you.And infringing the speed limit 3 or 4 times in a year(Something like being 58 km per hour on a 50 km per hour street) will revoke your driver license.Its stupid.And brazillians know that. |
Yeah, the traffic industry is terrible, but that's not how you solve it, like, at all. You don't even need to think to get to that conclusion. Because what he's doing also allows actual offenders to still be driving and consequently making it more dangerous for the people who are trying to drive safely. As if Brazil didn't have enough traffic accidents already.
Why didn't he try to implement some tighter inspection or some kind of way to control where the radars are installed, for example? Oh, right, because that doesn't look as good in a headline.
Nautilus said:
Not aware of this one, but probably something taken out of context.But Im happy to be proven wrong.
In what points?Would be nice to have a reference of some sort, or even links to those claims.
Again, source.But assuming its true, yeah thats stupid.Still, dosent point to dictatorship in the slightest. |
The context is in the link I linked. It's not out of context. As a matter of fact, it doesn't need any context. There's only one possible interpretation of what he said. He said, with all the words needed, that LGBT+ people are abstract things and Brazil doesn't want to protect them, Brazil wants to protect "real people".
The next two points were included in the first link, that you clearly didn't read.
| Nautilus said:
Yes, because it was pointless to have a dozen different Minitries for the same topic.He just concentrated them.Labor and emplyment is still extremely important(see previous post for sources on that), Bolsonaro is just being efficient by putting it inside the Ministry of Economy, which is already giving results. |
We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't think it's giving results. In my point of view, Brazil is critically in need of someone to protect labour laws. And we're not gonna have that without a Ministry specifically for that. C'mon, it's one of the most important topics in a country.
Nautilus said:
This topic is delicate.Outside of the timing(which is stupid, given the reform he is trying to pass), I agree that his son would receive a better treatment and thus get things approved more quickly, than a random diplomat.Now people also have a point that his english skills suck.So Im neutral on this one, but honestly, since his approval needs to pass through the senate, dont strike me as nepotism.But thats me. |
Someone who doesn't know how to handle international affairs and barely speaks English would get things approved more quickly just because he's the son of the President? Why don't we put, idk, Zé Carioca as our next Minister of Foreign Affairs, then? He's really popular, people would love him. We could also consider putting a copy of a Tom Jobim CD as our next Minister of Education? It doesn't say much, but people love it, it would be easy to approve anything with it there.
Nepotism: "patronage bestowed or favoritism shown on the basis of family relationship, as in business and politics"
Bolsonaro designated Eduardo for the office, so that's nepotism already. Doesn't matter if it goes through the senate or not, he's already trying to favour his own family.
Nautilus said:
This "article" is the definition of misinformation.This right here is full of old information(that was proven to be either fake or exagerated), of suspicions based on nothing, or just lies.For example, giving job to relatives of bolsonaro(cousins, uncles or otherwise) is not a problem by itself as long as they are competent.I dont think there was a single proof of actual nepotism that was brought foward, other than those "coincidences".Especially on a family with a history on politic(Both sons of Bolsonaro are deputies that were eleged). |
I'm not going to argue because there's too much information in that link, and I've already spent too much time writing this. I'm just going to say one thing: Don't you think there are too many "coincidences"?
Nautilus said:
God no lol.He wants to close ANCINE yes, but because its a waste of money.Firstly, most movies produced with the money of ANCINE arent profitable(and honestly, they suck.Yes yes, personal opinion).But secondly, and most important, the government is broken.If they dont even have money for their public universities, why will they keep paying for films that dont even turn a profit? https://jovempan.uol.com.br/noticias/brasil/bolsonaro-confirma-que-quer-acabar-com-a-ancine-poder-publico-nao-tem-que-se-meter-a-fazer-filme.html |
Do you have a source to say that most movies produced with the money of ANCINE aren't profitable?
The production and distribution of a movie creates hundreds of jobs and the government will even get some of the money back from the taxes on the tickets. It's not dead money.
Culture is not a waste of money. Do you know what is a waste of money? The exorbitant paychecks politicians receive, including the Bolsonaro clan. But he wouldn't want to change that, would he? Do you know what's also a waste of money? The exorbitant paychecks retired members of the military receive. But he wouldn't want to change that either, would he?
Nautilus said:
Yes, because the data was indeed incorrect.And it was using an outdated system.Here is the proof:(The relevant part starts at roughly 13:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ubAJbocbnk |
Are you really going to give me a 360p Youtube video with 144 views from a channel called "Movement of the Brazilian People" that has a heart-shaped Brazilian flag, with a title that has not only a very sensationalist title but also puts spaces before exclamation marks and is all in caps lock to try and debunk a scientifically-proven method with 95% precision that has been done since 1988 with the use of high-tech satellites and with information gathered by different companies with different methods that end up giving the same result and able to be accessed by anyone online, which is also backed up by countless scientists and environmentalists around the world? Okay.
Nautilus said:
Dont know enough about this subject, so I wont comment.But if true, it should be reprimended(again, dont agree with 100% he does) |
It is true. I gave you the link that proves it from a credible source. You don't need to wonder if it is true or not. You don't need to tell me when you're disagreeing with something Bolsonaro said either, I'm pretty sure I can notice that myself.
Nautilus said:
Its still under investigation, but Gleen Greenwald adquired the messages through hackers, which illegally obtained the information.I mean, he is compromising the government, and even if what he shown actually proved that Sergio Moro was a great judge and that he did everything by the book, it was still alarming that governmental infromation was leaking like that.So yeah, even I would be pissed.But Bolsonaro didnt censor him or anything.So I dont see the dictatorship part in here. |
"It is still under investigation". There is no proof that Greenwald got any information illegally, and, unless he himself hacked the phones, he did not commit a crime. Threatening to imprison a journalist for giving people truthful information is a huge threat to democracy, how can you not see that? Bolsonaro is trying to hide information from people through fear, and if it doesn't work, he might begin trying those locking-up-without-evidence tactics he was talking about.
Nautilus said:
Wont comment, simply because I dont know much about this one, but just to leave out here:Many of the people that claimed they were fighting the military dictatorship were actually criminals that robbed banks and killed people.So yeah, just leaving this out here. |
You clearly don't know much about this one. Miriam Leitão was indeed tortured during the military dictatorship, and there's proof.
The second part of your comment you got from the creative part of your mind, I'd assume, since there's no evidence. You just said that do defend the military dictatorship because they're right-wing and coincidentally share a lot of similarities with the current president, whom you love. Shame you for defending the military dictatorship. Shame on you.
Nautilus said:
He made a mistake, I dont understand how this is normalizing nazism.For all the horrible things the nazists did, they have done a great number of medical breakthrough.They used horrible methods yes, but they still did contribute to medicine.Just stating facts, not trying to normalize nazism. |
That's normalizing nazism because he's randomly dropping good things the nazis "did" and, at the same time, softening the bad stuff. The only reason that he would say that is so people can think "yeah, nazism wasn't so bad after all".
If you decide to reply to this, please use some credible sources and refrain from defending the military dictatorship. And maybe just stop lying, too. That's not just advice for replying to this, it's kind of advice for your life as a whole.
Last edited by Lucca - on 04 August 2019
